advice

[Pekish]

that why i don't use the AO automatic inside the light panel but i render the AO as a separate channel and then i apply it in photoshop as a masked layer of which i can control opacity and i can remove the area i want to look brighter it gives you extra control in focusing the scene in what u really want and u can remove it from object like trees that get it excessively dark and channel the bright area in the area u want the people to focus on similar to how u would do a vignette effect (but i don't like the vignette effect)

if you like it to be soft u can always use a falloff map in the dirt map


but the trick is ALWAYS render it as VreyExtratxt element (as separate channel) and always apply it in Photoshop with a % of transparency

as you can see even in that small example the tree is completely darkened (and ugly) this is why u should use a mask on the photoshop layer of the AO and make sure to remove the AO from certain object that doesn't work too well with it (object with too many faces close to each other and overlapping)

Unfortunately AO is not a straight "on/off" thing to make it right you need to work with it a little

[alexworx]

Reinhard is between linear and exponential, I think. Exponential will brighten the interior, but might blow out things. Reinhard dulls the hotspots, but does make for a flat image, which can be corrected in PS with a curve.

Thats what I switched to Reinhard due to some blowouts. Yes I am finding my Reinhard images tend to be flatter.
Thanks again

[Morbid Angel]

You must also reverse gamma correct your color textures...but really its about finding the balance. I would usually take a render and put a real interior image right next to it, for example a wooden floor of my render with photo and look at whats different, and just try to match.

Regarding the AO, I don't want to start an argument here. But AO is NOT physical in real world nor it happens in interiors. What you are seeing is a difference in shading. Notice that not all walls receive equal amount of darkening in corners. AO was written before GI was ever plausible to fake the look of GI.

With that said, every one has their own methods of making things look good so nothing wrong with using AO, if that makes you and client happy.

[glorybound]

You must also reverse gamma correct your color textures...but really its about finding the balance. I would usually take a render and put a real interior image right next to it, for example a wooden floor of my render with photo and look at whats different, and just try to match. Regarding the AO, I don't want to start an argument here. But AO is NOT physical in real world nor it happens in interiors. What you are seeing is a difference in shading. Notice that not all walls receive equal amount of darkening in corners. AO was written before GI was ever plausible to fake the look of GI. With that said, every one has their own methods of making things look good so nothing wrong with using AO, if that makes you and client happy.

I have never reversed gamma corrected my textures. This, to me, is where it becomes way too confusing. For me, AO is a cheap way to boost the fine details on things. If it doesn't need it (large flat planes) I don't use it, but for things with fine details it helps, but do it subtly.

[Morbid Angel]

The logic behind the gamma in textures is like this:

Typically your texture is taken by a camera, which already embeds a gamma 2.2 curve (or a curve of sorts) into it.

So by rendering with gamma 2.2 (old way in linear terms) would mean that this texture with 2.2 gets another 2.2 on top of it making it way too bright. So, you must in that case reverse the diffuse or any color texture to 0.4545 so that when it gets rendered it gets its original 2.2 and looks correct.

[glorybound]

Doesn't MAX/VRay do that for you on import?

The logic behind the gamma in textures is like this:

Typically your texture is taken by a camera, which already embeds a gamma 2.2 curve (or a curve of sorts) into it.

So by rendering with gamma 2.2 (old way in linear terms) would mean that this texture with 2.2 gets another 2.2 on top of it making it way too bright. So, you must in that case reverse the diffuse or any color texture to 0.4545 so that when it gets rendered it gets its original 2.2 and looks correct.

[Pekish]

what u are seeing is what u see in any picture that the corner get darker for many reason keeping a corner bright as if there is no difference doesn't make it look more real if in reality u always notice the corner being slightly darker obviously as i said before it's about moderation using a flat out AO make it look too dark and wrong i agree.

ambient occlusion is there to enhance the feeling of 3 dimension if used correctly it enhance your image it remove the flatness as much as adding contrast and is more correct that just a flat out contrast

especially in architecture where the corner are often 90 degree obviously if you are modeling an organic form it's debatable but as i showed in the previous image it definitely work well on architecture images i could show more example

http://i.imgur.com/mFz02HJ.gifv

i hope the gif animated works anyway u can notice (if u can see the gif animated), even if the render is very low quality, how the AO enhance the area around the sofa the pillows and the windows uptairs
obviously it will need to be done a bit more accurately then this quick low resolution sketch but the difference is obvious and i repeat this work best in architecture type of renders

advocating against it without showing any example to me is quite childish

[Morbid Angel]

Doesn't MAX/VRay do that for you on import?

It used to be that you needed to configure max to work in linear ahead of time. Now though, I think vray deal with that independently. In max prefs there is a gamma section in which you have to specify input/output bitmap gamma. Input means any texture that's being read will get corrected to whatever gamma value you set. However that affects every texture, which most people do not want (I don't certainly) So alternatively you leave that value at 1, and gamma correct whichever texture you have.

If you leave both fields at 1/1 then any texture read in will not be treated, and any output file *written out by max will not be treated. However since most people use vray's framebuffer output anyway then that field has no relevance.

Remember, that when you use sRgb button in vray vfb, it applies the gamma curve to the whole image in the frame buffer it self.

But if you use color mapping, it might be different (I generally don't though).

[voltron7]

I will add that you should maybe keep the camera at or near 64" AFF (the average human eye height above finish floor.)
To help combat the small space, try lowering the camera's focal length. And use vertical shift so the viewer doesn't feel seasick or like they are about to fall over :P
That's personal preference, I suppose, but something to try if you didn't already...