Deadline Creep

[glorybound]

How do you guys handle the deadline creep? Often I get a deadline, that I always make and then I get something like, "okay, I'll mark it up and get back to you in a couple days". I am working on a day project right now, with very little information and I know it'll happen on this one. I quoted them a day and they gave me almost no information, so I had to guess. I just sent it off for their afternoon meeting. I'll get an email with all kinds of information that I didn't get yesterday. I had a large project earlier this month that I worked on day and night for a month. I made the deadline and then he said, "good news! Here is the landscape plan and I have an extra week for you". I think I could double my annual income if I start charging for this kind of crap.

[DPS]

In your contract perhaps you could identify that you have an hourly rate for variations, and that comments should be related to whether or not you hit the brief.

[delineator]

Yeah, deliverables, response times, and schedule all need to be defined. This way a project can "end" in a variety of ways: times up, you didn't respond in 2 months and I'm sending an invoice assuming the image is good, or "I sent you 2 complete rounds of feedback, per contract this project is complete"

Obviously there is wiggle room per your discretion (and this should be built in as well) but you have to define this stuff up front and then you can flex when you need to without destroying yourself or your other projects/clients

[glorybound]

Oh, I do, but they never read it. Most walk all over the contract as if they are calling the shots. Recently I had a lady send me a whole new updated set of plans, when I was almost complete, wanting me to change 80% of what I did. I said sure, I'll send you a quote on what it'll take and she freaked out. I explained that someone has to pay for the changes and it shouldn't be me. She told me that I quoted her a price for a rendering and it's not fair... I said, read the contract.

[glorybound]

I really try to be patient and understanding, at least for my own mental health. Client management is my biggest headache. It almost seems as if they think I am sitting on my hands waiting for their feedback, even if it is weeks later. It isn't fair to the project because I have now moved on and their project is now my OT stuff. The contract has a start date and an end date. Many times I don't get drawings until the end date is long gone.

[piotrus3333]

I would say that most of the issues with clients come from lack of information. on both sides.
work should not begin until you are provided with full info needed to finish the job.
client should be aware of the limited number of reviews, limited time for every review etc. planned schedule is the key. dates for every review should be set. sure - you need to deliver on time but you also have something to fall back on when things are getting messy. deadlines are not only for you.
it will never be so perfect in real world but solid framework is essential. no landscape plan? ok, be flexible, see how much time you need for the house and set the deadline for rest of the info. every day client is late with their part of obligations moves the final deadline. no matter the scale every project everywhere need some form of menagement. spreadsheet this stuff. track the time spent, daily progress etc.
when I was working solo I knew up to 15 minutes accuracy how much time specific job took. knew $/hour ratio. every single working day was in the books. 3 years ago I joined small studio, completely different attitude. I will tell you one thing - people don?t need to be always organized but bussiness is a different story.

[glorybound]

I use a client management system that has milestone clearly written out. I think most clients know what they are doing and they are playing a game. The problem is time. Sure, I can slide the due date, but I can't move most start dates on upcoming projects. My contract says that their project might have to be rescheduled based on my current workload.

[glorybound]

It takes one rogue client to mess up a dozen projects. I have a current client who, each time she reviews her stills finds new things to mark up. I keep telling her that she has two sets of revisions, per the contract, and she keeps marking things up. She says, "it has to be correct!". I guess my question is, are you guys just doing it for client relations or are you actually billing them? I tend to warn, but never make good on it.

[piotrus3333]

I would think that contract is a serious insurance policy against games.
I remember a client long time ago. very good client overall. designers I worked with were not responsible for finances and payments started to be late. jobs were always on tight deadlines (interior designers showing images to their clients, amendments often done in an hour) so I introduced obnoxious watermark "not paid for". worked like a charm, payments within hours, problem solved forever.
sometimes you just need to apply pressure or say "no".
the moment you start to resent your client it's already to late to save the relationship. what you loose in $ you will save in health.

[glorybound]

I would think that contract is a serious insurance policy against games.
I remember a client long time ago. very good client overall. designers I worked with were not responsible for finances and payments started to be late. jobs were always on tight deadlines (interior designers showing images to their clients, amendments often done in an hour) so I introduced obnoxious watermark "not paid for". worked like a charm, payments within hours, problem solved forever.
sometimes you just need to apply pressure or say "no".
the moment you start to resent your client it's already to late to save the relationship. what you loose in $ you will save in health.

Yeah, my contract says I'll add a watermark until things get paid, but I don't usually do it.

[andybot_cg]

You need to be upfront before you do changes. Say that to make this adjustment will be x more hours, before you do it.

[glorybound]

You need to be upfront before you do changes. Say that to make this adjustment will be x more hours, before you do it.

Yes, I do, but I don't end up billing them. I don't mind making changes when it makes the project better, however, I don't like it when clients try to take advantage. I am learning to have a good nose for these kinds of clients, but sometimes they slip through. I had one guy reach out to me today and after a few emails I knew I didn't want him as a client, so I passed.

[arobbert]

Yeah, my contract says I'll add a watermark until things get paid, but I don't usually do it.

I add a watermark to all images until they are final. It helps insure draft images are used for their original intent . After they exceed the included revision cycle I provide an estimate for the additional cost of revisions as specified in my agreement. Any change after the final image is billed as an additional cost. Of course I make exceptions, but I try to adhere to this policy especially with new clients.

Between a specific number of included revisions and the watermark I seldom have problem.

I also sometimes include language in my agreement that indicates the product is a good approximation and that we will get it as close as possible based on the provided information (sketchy project information, etc.). This is usually buried lower in the agreement and we all know most customers don't read this stuff anyway. If a customer feels that the image is "incorrect" I try to negotiate a compromise. Do some things for free and charge for some others.

[delineator]

Honestly glorybound it sounds like you know how to handle clients what to do, but in all of your responses you say "but I usually don't charge them" "but I usually don't add a watermark" "I tend to warn but never make good on it"

So I guess in a very gentle and respectful way, I hope you understand that the problem is you, not the clients. I know, I know, this is a hard pill to swallow, but you are doing things correctly and not going about this randomly, but lack of follow thru has weakened your position with several clients (from how you describe it). Its like the parent at Target that keeps saying "put that down or your going to get a time out!" and all they do is keep repeating it and the kid keeps doing whatever they want because there is nothing that comes next, no consequence, no follow thru.

Break a few eggs, break up with a few clients, enforce a few contracts, say no a few times and you'll life and mental health will improve substantially.

[glorybound]

Honestly glorybound it sounds like you know how to handle clients what to do, but in all of your responses you say "but I usually don't charge them" "but I usually don't add a watermark" "I tend to warn but never make good on it"

So I guess in a very gentle and respectful way, I hope you understand that the problem is you, not the clients. I know, I know, this is a hard pill to swallow, but you are doing things correctly and not going about this randomly, but lack of follow thru has weakened your position with several clients (from how you describe it). Its like the parent at Target that keeps saying "put that down or your going to get a time out!" and all they do is keep repeating it and the kid keeps doing whatever they want because there is nothing that comes next, no consequence, no follow thru.

Break a few eggs, break up with a few clients, enforce a few contracts, say no a few times and you'll life and mental health will improve substantially.

I just want to know what is the normal.