No licenses when internet connection is lost?

[nikolay.simeonov]

Thanks for the reply, Nikolay. However, don’t you have to borrow these licenses manually? With Adobe it is set and forget.

Or have I completely misinterpreted how licensing works, and it does automatically keep licenses locally?

If I do not borrow any licenses manually, and my internet guess out, or Chaos servers, or routing in between is interrupted, etc. Will we be able to use our licenses?

Or do we indeed have to manually Return and re-borrow licenses (which is not atomic), to ensure we always have a week or more of uninterrupted licenses?

Thanks.

The licenses need to be borrowed manually only the first time you perform the borrowing process. Afterwards, your licenses will be auto-renewed unless you manually release them. Borrowed licenses are stored locally automatically, on the machine that has borrowed them. Borrowed licenses can be accessed by all machines in the local network.
If you have not borrowed your licenses and your internet connection goes out - you will be not able to use V-Ray. If our backend servers are down, but your internet connection is OK, you should be able to use V-Ray, provided that you have installed Chaos License server version 5.0.0 or later.

Once you borrow your licenses, you do not need to do anything manually - the Chaos license server will automatically reborrow them for you.

[Nicinus]

That is exactly how the Chaos License server is supposed to be used, when distributing multiple licenses across different offices and people. The Chaos license server borrows your Online licenses for offline use on your Server machine - those licenses will be available for two weeks without any conditions. The users will be able to access them via the VPN and do not need to activate the Chaos License server or borrow licenses themselves.
Our licensing is similar to the way Adobe and Autodesk operate "For both Adobe and Autodesk you need internet when you install the product, and then need to be connected within every 30 days". You can use your borrowed licenses for 14 days without internet connection. Their renewal happens automatically. However, the renewal process requires internet connection at least once during the last 3 days. The renewal is valid from the moment it happened for additional 14 days.

The help doc seems mainly to refer to if you have no internet at all and need to activate your license. And the comment above is clear as mud, where Nikolay says it works similar to Adobe and Autodesk and you can use the license for 14 days without internet. It then gets complicated. "Their renewal happens automatically", which indicates Chaos doesn't. He then says "However, the renewal process requires internet connection at least once during the last 3 days"?

Can I just get a clear yes or no. If I have Vray on a laptop and grabs it to go for lunch or sit somewhere without internet, or if I loose internet for a couple of days at the office, will my Vray 5 continue to work?

[^Lele^]

So what you are saying is that for Chaos online licenses you need internet connection when you install, and then every 14 days for the main computer you are using Vray on? What is the part with the renewal needing internet at least during the last 3 days? Would be great to get a truly clear answer on this.

It's in the help doc Nikolay linked.

[Nicinus]

So what you are saying is that for Chaos online licenses you need internet connection when you install, and then every 14 days for the main computer you are using Vray on? What is the part with the renewal needing internet at least during the last 3 days? Would be great to get a truly clear answer on this.

[Joelaff]

Thanks for the reply, Nikolay. However, don’t you have to borrow these licenses manually? With Adobe it is set and forget.

Or have I completely misinterpreted how licensing works, and it does automatically keep licenses locally?

If I do not borrow any licenses manually, and my internet guess out, or Chaos servers, or routing in between is interrupted, etc. Will we be able to use our licenses?

Or do we indeed have to manually Return and re-borrow licenses (which is not atomic), to ensure we always have a week or more of uninterrupted licenses?

Thanks.

[nikolay.simeonov]

Business are not interested in having people check out licenses at home or via their mobile phone via the Chaos servers. We have already done that for years because, like most business, we have a VPN. So our users are effectively on the LAN and can check out licenses from OUR local license server anywhere in the world. To a business all that matters is we have a reliable LOCAL server that has licenses that can sustain us for a week or two.


Please, Chaos, re-evaluate the current setup.

That is exactly how the Chaos License server is supposed to be used, when distributing multiple licenses across different offices and people. The Chaos license server borrows your Online licenses for offline use on your Server machine - those licenses will be available for two weeks without any conditions. The users will be able to access them via the VPN and do not need to activate the Chaos License server or borrow licenses themselves.
Our licensing is similar to the way Adobe and Autodesk operate "For both Adobe and Autodesk you need internet when you install the product, and then need to be connected within every 30 days". You can use your borrowed licenses for 14 days without internet connection. Their renewal happens automatically. However, the renewal process requires internet connection at least once during the last 3 days. The renewal is valid from the moment it happened for additional 14 days.

[Nicinus]

For both Adobe and Autodesk you need internet when you install the product, and then need to be connected within every 30 days. Can anyone explain how and if this differs from Vray and ChaosGroup products? I'm primarily interested in the main cpu and user interface in case this is different for render nodes.

[fixeighted]

I feel for you. This should not happen.
Personally I don't care what the reasons are - if I buy software then I expect to have it to use when I want it and not only when there is an internet connection.
I also agree that the term 'borrow' when used with something you have paid for for a fixed period is not appropriate.

It should not be up to users to remember to 'borrow' something periodically, purely to ensure that what they have bought actually works. Sounds daft just saying it LOL

This post made me jittery as I have a job to deliver tomorrow. If I miss a deadline that makes me look bad. Same for us all.
The system, however 'bulletproof' it is thought to be, is clearly giving people issues and I for one am not knowledgable enough to troubleshoot things on my end
and do not have an IT dept. Just me; when it goes down I go down. I suspect it's the same for a number of people.
It happened to me a few months ago and it was extremely stressful.

I hope you're able to solve this today

[squintnic]

yeah its totally fucked, i have tried everything. lost my patience with this insane licensing system and am gonna miss a delivery because of it - never missing something since I was on vray 1.5 due to a vray issue and i cant believe its happening now

[Joelaff]

Basically, you offer two modes. The first mode works the way it does now. It is easy for the causal user to user their license no matter where they are. If they have internet; it just works. Good intention, works well for casual use.

The second method is the "business" or "enterprise" method or whatever you want to call it. The corporate license server on the LAN *automatically* check the license once a day or so and re-verifies it for a minimum of one week (two is better). So if the network goes down or Chaos servers go offline you have a week or two of uninterrupted service.

Let's face it, businesses are paying many thousands of dollars a year for VRay with render nodes (I know I am). You would not operate a business without insurance, yet here we are vulnerable to outages that could literally cost hundred of thousands of dollars in losses, perhaps more in the event of a lawsuit (thankfully we have insurance... but good luck every getting insurance again after that kind of payout). This is simply not an acceptable business risk.

Business are not interested in having people check out licenses at home or via their mobile phone via the Chaos servers. We have already done that for years because, like most business, we have a VPN. So our users are effectively on the LAN and can check out licenses from OUR local license server anywhere in the world. To a business all that matters is we have a reliable LOCAL server that has licenses that can sustain us for a week or two.

Now, our local license server just needs to have an AUTOMATIC constant checkout for a week or two, ideally this is an atomic checkout as well. Right now to do it manually we have to either let the checkout expire (bad), or return it and re-check it out. What if the network goes out after we return the license but before we check out a new one? We are screwed, and lose tens of thousands of dollars. The automatic process should be atomic (any programmer understands this term, but to non-coder it means it happens in one step... the return of the license and renewal of the license happen simultaneously, where the programming ensures you cannot return the license without checking out a new license, and the return is not processed until the new checkout is fully confirmed).

This would provide a licensing scheme appropriate for business. It would also not be difficult to implement.

Please, Chaos, re-evaluate the current setup.

[squintnic]

yeah this is fucked
also having this problem now and even trying to 'borrow' my own license isnt working - do not get me started on the concept of borrowing my own license lol....

please look at this its not on and not professional there must be a more bulletproof way to do licensing that doesn't let down the user

[Joelaff]

I am not from Chaos, but I am pretty darned sure this applies to interactive as well.

Really sad. This is NOT the way to handle licensing. The license server should update once a day with a license valid for a minimum of a week. It should also be updated on demand. A dropped internet connection or temporary outage of the Chaos servers should not take down a company. Period.

[Nicinus]

For clarification, this only apply to render nodes, right? If I upgrade my Vray Next dongle I can still work on a laptop without internet?

Can anyone, ideally from Chaos, comment on this? Certainly need to know before upgrading.

[Nicinus]

For clarification, this only apply to render nodes, right? If I upgrade my Vray Next dongle I can still work on a laptop without internet?

[Joelaff]

Hmmm.

I wish this was made more clear before purchasing. This is a serious flaw.

I understand you do this always online licensing so that I could check out a license with a server on my laptop and then do it at the office, but not at the same time.

Most businesses have some sort of office where they keep there dedicated license server. I think this server should automatically do the equivalent of borrowing licenses every hour or so. These borrowed licenses get updated every hour, but will work with no internet for at least a week.

Internet connections ad Chaos license servers are all subject to so many factors outside our control (trees falling, lightning damage, DDOS, etc.). The way you have it working now any of these things could occur, possibly in the middle of the during a render due the next day, and we would be screwed out of possibly many tens of thousands of dollars or more. I just think you might want to rethink a method to allow business to weather any sort of outage automatically for at least a week.

Is this borrow process scriptable, or easily handled via a script that speaks HTTP to the license server? That is one option to have a local script that borrows licenses every day. Do you have some documentation as to how to do this?

This is actually a very serious concern. I really don’t understand the idea of licensing that fails Immediately if the internet is down. This also means without proper traffic shaping large file transfers could delay the start of a render or launch of VRay UI, etc., no?

One DDOS To Chaos license servers could essentially bring down all VRay users. Please rethink this approach.