How not to sound like a jerk?

V-Ray V-Ray Common Off-topic
1

I really try to be professional and I also try to put my client’s best interest ahead of my own. I try not to reply to an email out of frustration and I end up deleting a few emails until I am sure I am not sounding like a jerk, but how far do you go? I mean, I appreciate the work; it feeds my family after all, but at what point do you put your foot down?

I have this project that I worked through the real estate agent with. She called all the shots. I gave my opinion and did what she asked. The house isn’t anything I am going to show as my own because well, it isn’t that good. The project was two eye-level exterior renderings and a couple interior renderings. She is allowed two sets of revisions for each view and she is on 4-5 revisions. Again, I try to put my clients needs ahead of my own (sleep), so I gently remind that there are a limited number of revisions and I make the change anyway. The exteriors were approved, but guess what, she showed it to her client and they had another vision for the exteriors. My clients said, “I showed the renderings to my client and we missed the mark!”. First, I didn’t miss the mark, you did. Of course, I thought this but didn’t say it. Her client wants aerial, which to me, are more difficult and had I known, the quote would have been different. What now? She maxed out her revisions and my kindness to make changes for free and her client isn’t happy. In my eyes, it will cost more and I am not the one who has to pay for it with my time. However, I do several projects a year with the company and I don’t want to jeopardize that. She knows this, too. When she knows she is asking for more than she paid for she says, “I have several other projects I am planning on sending to you”. I do work for this company, but it is always a different person. Each project has very little information, so it’s usually trial and error at every step of the process. This same job I built the interior kitchen per the plans, however, apparently, that’s not going to sell the house, so everything was changed. Same for the living room. I placed furniture where the plan showed and I built a fireplace per the plan, but again, that’s not what she wanted.

My theory is this, and I might be way off. I had someone inquire about a project that I wasn’t interested in, so I pointed this person to a freelance site. I warned him about low skilled people and he might be working with people overseas, so communication may be an issue. He said, and it is burnt into my mind, “oh, not a problem, I can work them day and night and they won’t say a word”. I thought, really? They are people, working to feed their families too and you are going to take advantage of it? Is this how Americans think? This company has used a service overseas, however, they said that the images were not of high enough quality, so they sought out someone like me, who might be able to do better. I think they are used to the unlimited revisions for pennies on the dollar and people being yes men.

At what point do you make your clients abide by your agreement, without wavering? How passive should one be? I want to be a pleasure to work with, however, pleasing one person pisses another person off when their project is being delayed.

2

Oh man, it always happens doesn’t it. I would imagine this as what outweighs what. Does losing the client make you go poor and bankrupt in a long run? or does losing this client will actually improve your quality of life and allow you to work on other projects making better money etc? Some of them are not worth keeping, you have to pick your battles.
I always stay professional with all of my clients to the end. Professional does not equal friendly or to be taken advantage of though. Another thing is that talking over email is basically a legal proof in case things go bad. So, if you act like a jerk it can backfire later. To you, you can swear at them in hear head all day long, but on paper be professional but also say what really you think is best for you. I sometimes tell my clients that I have to put my self ahead of them and their projects and they get upset but its the reality. Work is work, it comes and goes, but you and your life / relationship with family is much more important then slaving away weekend after weekend for some project that is quickly forgotten and money it earned is quickly spent.
The other thing is mean what you say. I find with clients its often like with kids. You tell them no, but they keep asking and asking. But if you are consistent they learn in time and stop asking :slight_smile:

3

Also I forgot to mention that, I also do the same where I read the email then NEVER reply immediately. Replying right away puts you in a high emotional state, its 99.9% better to sit on it for some time, few hours, maybe sleep on it then come up with a good response.

4

If you have a contract and don’t enforce it, then there doesn’t seem much point in having one.

I doubt very much that this client cares about your needs so why reciprocate? If you have a client that you enjoy working with and have a good relationship with then its worth having flexibility, but by the sounds of this company, they arent that. Be professional but not emotional when dealing with them, don’t let them break the contract and if they start ‘threatening’ to use cheaper people, let them and walk away knowing you aren’t being taken advantage of.

5

It’s like hiring a photographer, picking his lens, choosing the lighting and composition and then complain when the photos suck. Do you still need to pay the photographer? Or, maybe you sent the photographer to the wrong address and he takes photos of the wrong house. You still need to pay, even if you can’t use the photos. Yes, I would win in court, but at what cost.

I had a guy call last month. This guy makes a living creating 3D floor plans. We was looking for a resource to do exterior renderings, which brought him to me. I explained my process and he questioned the deposit I require. He said that he doesn’t ask for a deposit, which gets him a lot of work. He said that often people don’t pay, they count it as a loss and move on. He sees it at the cost of doing business. He thinks he gets a lot of work by not asking for a deposit, so it is worth it. Is it worth it for me to do more work than I’m being paid for? I guess that’s the question.

I want people leaving me thinking I’m really easy to work with and not the opposite.

6

Your analogy of the photographer implies confusion about whats being communicated to the client about services/ process etc before starting the job. Are they hiring a photographer for their ability in taking photographs, or just because they own a camera…the potential outcomes are quite different and need to be communicated at the beginning.

When a client goes over the revision amount in the contract, are you telling them, before moving on, that you will be invoicing them the additional time?

7

Yes, the contract talks of a per hour fee above and beyond the two allowed revisions. 1/2 my clients hire me because I own a computer and the other half hire me because of what I can do with that computer. The second half, I believe, always comes out much better.

8

sorry i meant, when the client has used the 2 revisions, do you then tell them that they are being charged after that, before doing the revision?

9

Yes, but I don’t follow through and it is usually after 3-4 revisions. I’ll say something like, “you have used more than your two revisions and I normally quote per hour, per the contract for changes after the two revisions, However, I’ll wave those fees to get you your updates”. They usually have a comment, “well, my client won’t pay until it is correct”, or “I just noticed it now”. I literally had someone comment that “the grill under the refrigerator is showing three vents when ours has four”.

10

I just got a nice reply from client in question.

“Understood, and this is definitely a new process for our team on this end, so we’re lucky to be working with you on this, I appreciate it.”

Thanks for listening to my rant. You guys are cheaper than a physiologist.

11

Thats good to hear. The “well, my client won’t pay until it is correct” is down to them not you, the home buyer is the estate agents client, the estate agent is your client. If the estate agent screws up…they should pay or at least they need to understand its their responsibility to avoid situations like “I just noticed it now” :slight_smile:

12

It falls in the category of ”you’ll get paid when I get paid”. I’m very clear that that’s not how I work.

13

having it in the contract but not enforcing it is just like a parent threatening a naughty child with a punishment over and over but never actually punishing the bad behavior, soon enough the child stops even hearing the threat and carries on regardless whilst the parent becomes more and more upset.

14

“oh, not a problem, I can work them day and night and they won’t say a word”

Probably exactly what your client says to their client…

15

I would hope not, because that isn’t the case.

16

From what you’re saying, I think this very well could be the case. You’re not standing your ground, you’re not enforcing their contractual obligations, so like others have suggested, they’re likely not going to take you seriously.

17

I just can’t wrap my mind around the client mindset. They hold the balance ransom, using it to get more than they agreed too. I guess for me, it is the principle that matters. Yes, there is a contract but is it worth the time and effort to collect. I had a guy disappear over $450 and it cost me 1/2 that to take action. Currently, I have a guy who disappeared over $600 and I am not sure it’s worth my time to go after him. I think I will, because of the principle, but it is sad that people think that they are so entitled.

18

did he not give you a deposit? Are you not sending him watermarked renders?

19

Today, I sent him an email telling him that I am ready to submit my conciliation paper, however, I’ll leave the screen open until the end of business day today. If his balance isn’t paid in full I’ll submit the form, which will cost $80 to submit and $385 for court fees, which will be billed to his account. He paid his balance within an hour.

Yes, he paid his deposit. I don’t put a watermark on my images, but I do put my logo in the bottom right of the image, which comes off when the balance is paid. My contract says that they can’t use the image until the final invoice is paid.

20

its why i hate service industry, my friend who owns a few successful companies (businesses) said that service sector is constant struggle. You need to produce a product and sell that product its the only way to make money and avoid dealing with day to day people and crap.