Hi
I have tried to make an ordinary glass material to simulate stacked glass, but its just wont work.
So how to make, say a block of stacked glass with the appearance of 10mm thick glass panes stacked on top of each other.
It is not supposed to be panes with polished glass edges just cut with ordinary glass cutters.
As in the image on the right hand side of the stack.
Any hints are welcome
Thanks
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
- when you make the model, separate the stacked objects by a tiny amount so there aren’t any overlapping surfaces. you probably should adjust each piece so the vertical stacking isn’t literally perfect.
- you can get the green effect using the fog color and multiplier in refraction settings
- make sure “affect shadows” is on in refraction settings
- you may need to increase the refraction and reflection max depth and max transp. level in global switches, depending on the number of pieces being stacked
- use a bump map or displacement map to get the slight warping in the cut edge
- note that in your image, one side is green and the other is much brighter - this has to do with the surrounding objects, lighting, etc.
Re: Stacked glass material
Hi Emil
And thanks for reply
Yeah the overall material is no issue but its the egde of the pane I cant handle. Should I separate the edge and the pane itself? How ever to do that?
- you may need to increase the refraction and reflection max depth and max transp. level in global switches, depending on the number of pieces being stacked
Could you be more detailed what you mean?
- use a bump map or displacement map to get the slight warping in the cut edge
How would that bumpmap or displacementmap look like? (sorry for stupid question) cloud or what ,Photoshop
- note that in your image, one side is green and the other is much brighter - this has to do with the surrounding objects, lighting, etc.
Yes I know, but its the right hand side look I am after…
Regards
P
Re: Stacked glass material
try using the noise map (instead of bitmap) in the material. you can probably do this just with a bump map. use the “size” parameter to adjust the xy (uv) scale of the noise, and the multiplier to adjust the apparent height of the bump.
the max depth and transp. level in global switches control how many bounces of light contribute to reflections and refractions. usually the default values are ok, because there aren’t too many bounces, but with a stack of glass, you may notice weird dark areas in the refractions. you can adjust these values to make them better, but render time will increase. but if you’re just worried about the edge, maybe this is overkill - by the time you put a bump on it, you won’t really see much of a difference.
Re: Stacked glass material
Ok
I will try this, but its not just the edges of course. But since that is the “opening” of the glass-surface (where you see into the glass) I thought that its of significance that the edge are “correct”.
I hope to make some “indents” or sandblasted “prints” in the glass-surface that will reflect trough the glass, visible in some strange refracted way…
But thanks
Re: Stacked glass material
so i tried noise, and it may be a little too uniform. i grabbed a part of the glass image you sent and turned it into a bump map:
and it works ok. needs to be modified a little. since you don’t want it on the top and bottom surfaces, you’ll have to use box mapping with divided texture space and a different map:
looks like this:
if you work it you should be able to get what you want this way
Re: Stacked glass material
Per,
I think I see what Emil is explaining - you separate the groups of glass (each pane in its entirety), not the edge from the surface. If you have the large surfaces touching each other, you will get weird dark areas in the refractions.
Emil- that’s a nice map you came up with!
Andy
Re: Stacked glass material
thanks, andy - and thanks for clarifying my post for me! right, each pane or “box” of glass needs to be just a little separated from the one below and above. each pane should be a solid so the refractions work right, but doesn’t have to be box shaped.
btw on that render i didn’t muck with the max depth etc settings, you’ll prolly be fine with default.
and it doesn’t show well unless you download, but the right hand side of the “divided” map is blank white, so the top and bottom of the glass is smooth.
Re: Stacked glass material
Hi Emil and Andy
Great, I like it. Thats just what Iam after.
But I dont really understand how you get the bump map applied just to the edge of the pane.
I little bit slow I suppose…
Re: Stacked glass material
you make a single image that is a composite, from left to right, of each image you want for each side of the box in the following order: front, right, back, left, bottom, top
then apply a box map and select the “divided” texture space, instead of “single”
rhino will divide the image into 6 equal areas left to right and use one area for each side of the box, in the above order
that’s why my second image has the same bump repeated four times, with a white “image” repeated twice
see the following link for more info, scroll down for box map
http://www.rhino3d.com/4/help/dialogs/properties_texturemapping.htm
Re: Stacked glass material
Many thanks Emil for your patience with a knob
Total newbie in mapping so have to learn that to I asume..
Weekend cut out for you..
Cheers
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
Emil or someone..
When I want maybe hundred of stacked glass panes on top of each other, what is the best solution?
Because I noticed when just copying one pane with box/divided mapping on it, the rendertime just went much higher?
And can I still use box/divided mapping if one (“the front”) side is curved or wavy?
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
I wonder if you would get the same effect if you modeled just the edge and not have all the planes in the middle. Could be that processing all that refraction eats a lot of CPU time? Draw a big box and draw only the jutting glass edges? (Maybe with a fog color, you would be able to get the green effect?) Just some thoughts
Andy
Re: Stacked glass material
Hi Andy
Thats a lot of work, and I want to make some cutouts in the panes to so that’s not an option I think.
Are there no workaround to achieve the same effect with the glassedges?
Every pane is individual with a wavy front but with a square back.
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
It’s not that much work. Stack the planes the same way you would have anyway, but this time make sure they *are* touching top to bottom. Then union them into one solid. The union will take a while with a large stack, you’re better off doing a few at a time. Also, since you’ll end up with a much thicker object - 100 times thicker - you’ll need to tone down the fog multiplier a lot. And you’ll have to make sure to repeat the box map vertically to keep the scale right.
I’m not sure what you mean by cutouts, but these could all be unioned into the final solid.
Yes, box/divided will work with a curved edge. The more the curved edge diverges from being a true box, the more distorted the mapping will appear, but you can tone it down in the bump map for that side. And you want distortion anyway, so maybe it’ll be fine.
Re: Stacked glass material
Hi Emil
About the work, I was referring to Andy that he suggested to cut away the “interior” of the pane to not have so many refractions, at least I thought he was?
And is that what you are suggesting to? Cut out the “interior” of the glass pane? But correct me if I am wrong, will I not end up with an interior edge also? Dont that causes more refractions?
I havent been able to recreate your great test of my idea…
I cant get it to work at all 
. My tries look like sh-t.
Are you using hdri? Lights? Sun?
My idea is a big pile (1500x800x300mm) of stacked glass panes with an edge (like your testrender) and in some places in the interior of the panes there are “cutouts” with waterjet, a straight line, building together symbols like a fotprint, a fish or other details…Hope you can see this.
Of course the “images/details” will be visually distorted but thats ok.
Its a sculpture for a church and I really need some images to present.
But I cant get it to work.
Do I sound desperate enough???
Could you explain how (from start, all included) you did the test render.
Regards
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
Yes, i was following andy’s line of thinking, or trying to. If i understood him correctly, he was suggesting to build the stack as a single solid to reduce the number of surfaces. Im not sure about what removing the “interior of the pane” means, maybe I misunderstood Andy. I’m also not entirely sure this would give you the effect you want though, it’s just a workaround.
Maybe you could post the model, or at least screenshots of it.
My test render was no lights, just hdri, I used one of the free ones from Aversis in both gi skylight and background, no adjustments just defaults, no vray camera. I think the hdri was the “balkon_sun” or something. You have to move the camera around until you get an angle that you like, eg the reflection.
Hope that helps…
Re: Stacked glass material
Hi Emil
Here is a screendump of a starting surface..
I was actually starting in the other end trying to figure out how to render then create the object.
Anyway, the glass is supposed to stand on its “bottom edge” and then stacked along the longside as in screendump2
As you can see the edges is facing upright.
The fish is waterjet cut into each pane right trough the glass (there is more details coming…
But I cant get the box mapping to work, so plz what size was the glass pane, you used, in relation to your bump map, and was it a bump or a displacement map?
Any hints are great
Per
Re: Stacked glass material
And I forgot: how did you make the material ? in detail that is.
Re: Stacked glass material
So you already have a solid. And it looks like you’re doing vertical slices (sorry, in on my mobile, can’t see too well). I think you’re going to have to actually cut this into individual slices and pull them slightly apart like I originally suggested, I don’t think a “workaround” as Andy and I were suggesting is going to work on this, because the edges are meant to seem like they are part of a continuous surface.
As for the material and box mapping, I don’t think I can describe that better than I have already. Can you describe what’s not working in yours? You can start just by using the map I posted. Except that because your slices are vertical, you’ll need to rotate the box mappin so the smooth sides are on the large sdes intead of top & bottom. Either rotate the widget or build the map differently in photoshop.