# Unbiased Randering and Caustics **URL:** \ **Category:** Render Theory\ **Created:** [July 21, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119 "2012-07-21T01:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/21 "2013-03-20T00:39:39Z")
It’s going fine; we did a lot of work on that recently. I hope to show some images when I get back to the office. Best regards, Vlado ---
**Author:** ![sandykoufax](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/sandykoufax/32/49770_2.png) [@sandykoufax](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sandykoufax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/22 "2013-03-20T07:18:08Z")
Looking forward to see them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/23 "2013-03-20T13:22:01Z")
Is any of that available in nighties ? Also is it usable with volumetrics/dispersions etc etc or is it just pure engineering example? ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/24 "2013-03-22T10:01:28Z")
Chaos programmers!.. seems like Micheal (aka Anchovy) should work with you guys maybe? Its always good to mix it up with this stuff, as much like PT itself the more minds coming at the problems together with converge moar quicker 😉 Ive been impressed with the recent splurge of PT renderers out there. Brigade is interesting as it is optimised and geared up for gaming as opposed to say Octane and it has physics! - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ33YoKu9w&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ33YoKu9w&feature=player%5C_embedded) And Corona which is producing some really convincing results for a free Alpha product - [http://corona-renderer.com/](http://corona-renderer.com/) I do know from past experience with Maxwell that caustics simply didn’t work properly, so hopefully this has been remedied in the world of unbiased. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/25 "2013-03-22T10:44:05Z")
deflix thats some fascinating video you posted… didnt expect that we moved that far with teh heh… On the other side did you tried Vred? I wish I know what engine its using but for cars and rendering its simply pure insane what you can get out of it… I specially love the AA filter it offers… 0.00000000% jagged edges. All looks perfect. Cant w8 to see what new awesome stuff Vlado and chaos has for us in their basement 😮 ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/26 "2013-03-22T11:00:21Z")
> [@DADAL](#): > > deflix thats some fascinating video you posted… didnt expect that we moved that far with teh heh… On the other side did you tried Vred? I wish I know what engine its using but for cars and rendering its simply pure insane what you can get out of it… I specially love the AA filter it offers… 0.00000000% jagged edges. All looks perfect. > > Cant w8 to see what new awesome stuff Vlado and chaos has for us in their basement 😮 yes me neither. afaik Brigade isnt bi-direction PT. I do like the physics thing however, and I do wonder if engine tech could become a bit more like Linux one day with convergence of all peoples hard work into a global Mega-renderer evolution. Of course this is not a good way to make cash, but the implications are amazing for a component type framework engine like that, especially considering that all engine tech everywhere draws from the same central knowledge base of math and principles 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tricky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/tricky/32/56653_2.png) [@tricky](https://forums.chaos.com/u/tricky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/27 "2013-03-22T11:11:55Z")
> [@deflix](#): > > Chaos programmers!.. seems like Micheal (aka Anchovy) should work with you guys maybe? > Its always good to mix it up with this stuff, as much like PT itself the more minds coming at the problems together with converge moar quicker 😉 > > Ive been impressed with the recent splurge of PT renderers out there. Brigade is interesting as it is optimised and geared up for gaming as opposed to say Octane and it has physics! - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ33YoKu9w&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ33YoKu9w&feature=player%5C_embedded) > And Corona which is producing some really convincing results for a free Alpha product - [http://corona-renderer.com/](http://corona-renderer.com/) > > I do know from past experience with Maxwell that caustics simply didn’t work properly, so hopefully this has been remedied in the world of unbiased. > > 🙂 That Brigade video is absolutely incredible! We are quite literally gobsmacked. When can I have that?!?! ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/28 "2013-03-22T12:05:01Z")
> [@deflix](#): > > yes me neither. afaik Brigade isnt bi-direction PT. I do like the physics thing however, and I do wonder if engine tech could become a bit more like Linux one day with convergence of all peoples hard work into a global Mega-renderer evolution. Of course this is not a good way to make cash, but the implications are amazing for a component type framework engine like that, especially considering that all engine tech everywhere draws from the same central knowledge base of math and principles 😃 Isnt blender open source for every1 ? 😄 If I only know how to code that would be the platform I’d invest in to 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/29 "2013-03-22T12:33:32Z")
> [@DADAL](#): > > Isnt blender open source for every1 ? 😄 If I only know how to code that would be the platform I’d invest in to 🙂 sure but its not an engine ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/30 "2013-03-22T13:05:26Z")
> [@deflix](#): > > sure but its not an engine Isnt blender render engine open source? And cycles? I thought they were open huhh ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/31 "2013-03-22T14:28:45Z")
> [@DADAL](#): > > Isnt blender render engine open source? And cycles? I thought they were open huhh Ahh I see what you mean - yes blender is open but its not the same thing really: I guess I see an engine as something that resolves many things in real-time, not just light transit. I wouldn’t describe an offline renderer as an engine for this reason. Brigade is being developed specifically for games development in mind; to resolve a dynamic and changing environment such as that in a game with physics, animation, rigging and so on. Imagine a feature rich real-time engine based around PT rendering such as Brigade on future graphics hardware. That’s how awesome the potential is and why I feel an open source approach would be great. ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/32 "2013-03-22T15:16:29Z")
> [@tricky](#): > > When can I have that?!?! You can get an old version here - [http://igad.nhtv.nl/~bikker/](http://igad.nhtv.nl/~bikker/) For a newer Alpha I suggest contacting OTOY ---
**Author:** ![deflix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/deflix/32/8161_2.png) [@deflix](https://forums.chaos.com/u/deflix)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/33 "2013-03-22T16:11:02Z")
Here is a good article about OTOY, Brigade and Octane. > **[Octane Render: realtime ray tracing - fxguide](https://www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/octane-render-realtime-ray-tracing/)** > > OTOY has released their Octane high end GPU ray tracing renderer - with farm offline and LIVE rendering about to go into beta. If you want a glimpse into one future for very high end gaming, look at what Octane is doing today. and a paper - [Redirect Notice](http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CHYQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Fijcgt%2Faip%2F578269.pdf&ei=qnVMUcjDDMPWPaamgdgO&usg=AFQjCNGDmfUxqen8AvOWpuKAAXsEpm66qA&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZWU&cad=rja) 😃 enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![sersia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@sersia](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sersia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/34 "2013-03-29T14:28:56Z")
Hi, “Photon Parameterisation for Robust Relaxation Constraints” looks pretty cool to remove the noise from caustics. 🙂 EG2013: [http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~csbenjamin/zetarelax.html](http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~csbenjamin/zetarelax.html) (Video): [Photon Parameterisation for Robust Relaxation Constraints](http://vimeo.com/57395372) ---
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/35 "2013-03-29T15:08:44Z")
> [@sersia](#): > > “Photon Parameterisation for Robust Relaxation Constraints” looks pretty cool to remove the noise from caustics. 🙂 This is patented last time I looked into it. So forget about it 🙂 Best regards, Vlado ---
**Author:** ![sersia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@sersia](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sersia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/36 "2013-03-29T15:16:28Z")
> [@vlado](#): > > This is patented last time I looked into it. So forget about it 🙂 > > Best regards, > Vlado aha! I got it. 🙂 Thank you for your reply. Have a nice weekend ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Neilg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/neilg/32/7044_2.png) [@Neilg](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Neilg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/37 "2013-03-29T16:51:43Z")
> [@vlado](#): > > This is patented last time I looked into it. So forget about it 🙂 > > Best regards, > Vlado Is the reason you never play with patented tech because of the problems it can create down the line, or is it a principle thing of refusing to pay and get a license for a bit of maths? Does anyone (other engines) play with patented tech? Seems to me that there’s an awful lot of incredible features which render engines cant use because they’re locked up in patents. ---
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/38 "2013-03-29T16:58:03Z")
> [@cubiclegangster](#): > > Is the reason you never play with patented tech because of the problems it can create down the line, or is it a principle thing of refusing to pay and get a license for a bit of maths? Does anyone (other engines) play with patented tech? To be fair, the guys that wrote that paper in particular did approach us to see if we were interested in licensing it. I was not convinced it was worth though (I’m still not). I’m not against licensing stuff where we think it could be useful (f.e. we did license MetaSL, although as far as I can tell, that turned out to be money down the drain). Best regards, Vlado ---
**Author:** ![Neilg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/neilg/32/7044_2.png) [@Neilg](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Neilg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/39 "2013-03-29T17:27:38Z")
Thanks for the info 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morbid\_Angel](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/morbid_angel/32/21272_2.png) [@Morbid\_Angel](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Morbid_Angel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/40 "2013-03-29T19:42:57Z")
I could see how licensing a technology that would dramatically speed up your rendering over all would be beneficial. But caustics on its own, is such a thing that is not used widely and the small number of people who tend to use them get about getting the caustics done in old fasion ways. This will not make the effort worth wile in my opinion. Im not sure of the purpose of MetaSL is it used in games or is there a general application for rendering with it? what would be benefits of using it? [Previous page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119.md?page=3)