# Unbiased Randering and Caustics **URL:** \ **Category:** Render Theory\ **Created:** [July 21, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119 "2012-07-21T01:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/61 "2013-04-11T16:20:56Z")
Vlado- Sure do. Ill post it tonight. -Michael ---
**Author:** ![sherridge101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@sherridge101](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sherridge101)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/62 "2013-04-11T16:52:51Z")
Is the vertex merging rendering part of the nightly builds? If so, how do I go about getting the nightly build? We use maxwell at work, so really looking forward to testing V-Ray’s implementation of it’s unbiased render engine. cheers, Steve ---
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/63 "2013-04-12T05:12:04Z")
> [@vlado](#): > > Do you have the scene for this too? > > Best regards, > Vlado I just posted the link to the file under the image. Have fun. -Michael ---
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/64 "2013-04-12T05:21:39Z")
here is a stab at the cline encapsulated torus. Not sure that the lighting is on par with the reference I was using but I certainly shows where plain BDPT falls down on specular-difuse-specular transport. P.S. This isnt the nightly build so it may have been fixed but sellf illuminated surface including VRay Sun show up black in the reflections. And here is the reference -Michael ![2012_BDPathTracing_Encapsulated_Torus_01.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/8/7/87f62b6e760e8e3a0bc3dcc08e146eeac67ce692.jpeg) ![5b0f3855d900df6b34b4ea50168f0a98.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/a/6/a694ed1334467dd4d162ccf86c0a65429c4c5adf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/65 "2013-04-12T12:55:29Z")
> [@Copy V-ray fur to another object?](https://forums.chaos.com/t/copy-v-ray-fur-to-another-object/40789/3): > > Is the vertex merging rendering part of the nightly builds? No, it’s not there yet. We need to tie some loose ends before we merge it into the nightly builds. Best regards, Vlado ---
**Author:** ![sherridge101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@sherridge101](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sherridge101)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/66 "2013-04-12T14:11:59Z")
cool, really looking forward to testing the vertex merging. cheers, Steve ---
**Author:** ![sherridge101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@sherridge101](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sherridge101)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/67 "2013-04-12T15:12:44Z")
Here’s a 6 min render (mac pro 12 core 2.93GHz) in maxwell as a comparison. I haven’t got the scene exactly as the example either, but it’s good to see the comparison. ![001b.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/2/9/29f0b635d162cdc05b4c343a2dd4ff85dde0e4d3.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![kosso\_olli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dfb087/32.png) [@kosso\_olli](https://forums.chaos.com/u/kosso_olli)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/68 "2013-04-15T08:12:11Z")
These images look really promising. Just for understanding: Do we still need to calculate any prepasses for the caustics or are they generated “on the fly” while rendering? ---
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/69 "2013-04-15T09:53:40Z")
> [@Help!How to clear these flickers and artifacts rendered by Vray?](https://forums.chaos.com/t/help-how-to-clear-these-flickers-and-artifacts-rendered-by-vray/40842/4): > > These images look really promising. Just for understanding: Do we still need to calculate any prepasses for the caustics or are they generated “on the fly” while rendering? They are generated on the fly. Best regards, Vlado ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/70 "2013-04-15T10:03:40Z")
Vlado, curiously would it be any good or better/faster/ to render caustics separably? So I get caustic + refl of caustic +refr + caustic light or so ? Not sure just wondering if an separate engine could handle it better/faster which could be then used in post. ---
**Author:** ![lllab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@lllab](https://forums.chaos.com/u/lllab)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/71 "2013-04-15T10:23:34Z")
“They are generated on the fly.” wow, thats very cool ---
**Author:** ![mario74](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/mario74/32/41196_2.png) [@mario74](https://forums.chaos.com/u/mario74)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/72 "2013-04-15T14:20:57Z")
> [@ivaylo.ivanov](#): > > here is a stab at the cline encapsulated torus. Michael, can you share this model please? ---
**Author:** ![kosso\_olli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dfb087/32.png) [@kosso\_olli](https://forums.chaos.com/u/kosso_olli)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/73 "2013-04-15T15:49:58Z")
> [@Paul\_Oblomov](#): > > They are generated on the fly. > > Best regards, > Vlado Can I still grab the caustics seperately as a render element then? ---
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/74 "2013-04-15T18:36:16Z")
> [@Lavoir](https://forums.chaos.com/t/lavoir/40845/7): > > Michael, can you share this model please? Ill be happy to share/post it tonight. -Michael > **[Morphographic](http://morphographic.com/)** > > Ill Have To Figure Out Something Clever Here ---
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/75 "2013-04-16T05:02:03Z")
> [@Lavoir](https://forums.chaos.com/t/lavoir/40845/7): > > Michael, can you share this model please? Here you go. [http://morphographic.com/PathTrace/2012\_BDPT\_Encapsulated\_Torus\_001.max](http://morphographic.com/PathTrace/2012%5C_BDPT%5C_Encapsulated%5C_Torus%5C_001.max) -Michael > **[Morphographic](http://morphographic.com/)** > > Ill Have To Figure Out Something Clever Here ---
**Author:** ![mario74](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/user_avatar/forums.chaos.com/mario74/32/41196_2.png) [@mario74](https://forums.chaos.com/u/mario74)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/76 "2013-04-16T07:58:42Z")
> [@Phoenix for Maya : D.R. ?](https://forums.chaos.com/t/phoenix-for-maya-d-r/40629/22): > > Here you go. thanks Michael. how long you let this run? i am on a dual-xeon after 40 minutes far away from your result… ---
**Author:** ![vlado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/779978/32.png) [@vlado](https://forums.chaos.com/u/vlado)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/77 "2013-04-16T11:42:42Z")
Here is a 3-hour test with the WinOSI scene and the latest nightly. Best regards, Vlado ![winosi_scene.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/5/4/542ac5b70af2823ab6091f314c6f27724fcf7762.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dariusz\_Makowski\_Dadal](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Dariusz_Makowski_Dadal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/78 "2013-04-16T11:45:56Z")
Wow, thats looks quite awesome! Is there any ETA for Maya or is it already in Maya? Also do u think in order to render that in 25s we need better hardware or better code? ---
**Author:** ![anchovy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anchovy](https://forums.chaos.com/u/anchovy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/79 "2013-04-16T16:53:01Z")
> [@NVIDIA Kepler](https://forums.chaos.com/t/nvidia-kepler/40713/37): > > Here is a 3-hour test with the WinOSI scene and the latest nightly. > > Best regards, > Vlado Vlado- Fantastic! and its looking clean for 3 hours. Cant wait to see some of the other setups. Should BDPT now be working with dispersion, viable self illuminated surfaces and lights and wait for it… SSS? What all else are you planning on doing with it feature wise? Thanks! -Michael > **[Morphographic](http://morphographic.com/)** > > Ill Have To Figure Out Something Clever Here ---
**Author:** ![sherridge101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@sherridge101](https://forums.chaos.com/u/sherridge101)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119/80 "2013-04-16T19:01:35Z")
Hi Vlado, thanks for the scene. I’m getting quite a lot of fireflies on a 3hr 50 render (i7 2600K): I’ve got 2.45.01. Is there any settings I should be tweaking? cheers, Steve ![BDPT_speckles.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/1/c/1cdf77cfd6661a3a1aa9c599e3244e7a34dc314c.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/unbiased-randering-and-caustics/42119.md?page=5)