# Vertex connection and merging added! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249 "2012-11-28T23:18:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Javadevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Javadevil](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Javadevil)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/21 "2012-12-01T23:56:55Z")
Freakin’ Awesome !!! Only dancing pony’s I could find 😃 [![](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/f/a/fae27b00a4c085f2abda22182bb952e8f836006e.jpeg "An hour of dancing ponies from "Cupcakes"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5EVYzLgHg4) ---
**Author:** ![Ondra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Ondra\_1](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Ondra_1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/22 "2012-12-02T00:00:08Z")
> [@Javadevil](#): > > Freakin’ Awesome !!! > Only dancing pony’s I could find 😃 > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5EVYzLgHg4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5EVYzLgHg4) what about ![TF1KE.gif](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/b/f/bff2c836668fae48406976157a2f6b19a0e85fd9.gif) ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tomasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tomasd](https://forums.chaos.com/u/tomasd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/23 "2012-12-02T13:36:59Z")
VCM is not unbiased 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chakib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Chakib](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Chakib)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/24 "2012-12-02T19:34:00Z")
> [@tomasd](#): > > VCM is not unbiased 😉 why do you say that? anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s ---
**Author:** ![Ondra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Ondra\_1](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Ondra_1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/25 "2012-12-02T19:49:38Z")
> [@Chakib](#): > > > [@tomasd](#): > > > > VCM is not unbiased 😉 > > why do you say that? > > anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s he is right, it is not unbiased, but consistent - it means that when rendering the bias eventually goes to zero with time. ---
**Author:** ![Chakib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Chakib](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Chakib)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/26 "2012-12-02T20:04:34Z")
> [@Keymaster](#): > > > [@Chakib](#): > > > > > [@tomasd](#): > > > > > > VCM is not unbiased 😉 > > > > why do you say that? > > > > anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s > > he is right, it is not unbiased, but consistent - it means that when rendering the bias eventually goes to zero with time. i see , but it’s doing a great job here, maybe you should make a 2 hours render of a full test scene with VCM so we can see better. ---
**Author:** ![Zander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecb155/32.png) [@Zander](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Zander)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/27 "2012-12-02T20:57:53Z")
I see you don’t have those funny white splotches, Do you keep “use merging” off ? ---
**Author:** ![Ondra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Ondra\_1](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Ondra_1)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/28 "2012-12-02T21:27:52Z")
FYI VCM with “use merging” off equal regular bidir ---
**Author:** ![Zander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecb155/32.png) [@Zander](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Zander)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/29 "2012-12-02T22:25:54Z")
> [@Keymaster](#): > > FYI VCM with “use merging” off equal regular bidir I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ? Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning. ---
**Author:** ![tomasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tomasd](https://forums.chaos.com/u/tomasd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/30 "2012-12-02T23:19:49Z")
Chakib: Saying that because it is (I am one of the method’s authors). But it doesn’t really matter, as you want low noise, not some math buzzwords 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ondra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Ondra\_1](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Ondra_1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/31 "2012-12-03T01:07:38Z")
> [@Sam75](#): > > > [@Keymaster](#): > > > > FYI VCM with “use merging” off equal regular bidir > > I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ? > > Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri > > Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning. grab the newest build, there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies) ---
**Author:** ![Chakib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Chakib](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Chakib)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/32 "2012-12-03T03:42:31Z")
> [@Keymaster](#): > > > [@Sam75](#): > > > > > [@Keymaster](#): > > > > > > FYI VCM with “use merging” off equal regular bidir > > > > I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ? > > > > Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri > > > > Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning. > > **grab the newest build,** there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies) does it include the legacy build ? ---
**Author:** ![lacilaci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/48db29/32.png) [@lacilaci](https://forums.chaos.com/u/lacilaci)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/33 "2012-12-03T06:29:54Z")
\*(there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies) → But both are resolved and gone in time, right? Anyway, would also like to test in legacy build if you find time… ---
**Author:** ![dom74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@dom74](https://forums.chaos.com/u/dom74)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/34 "2012-12-03T11:02:07Z")
Tested yesterday, it’s working very well with glass/refractions/caustics, but antialiasing seems to be less effective than standard progressive path tracing. ---
**Author:** ![Zander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecb155/32.png) [@Zander](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Zander)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/35 "2012-12-03T23:18:55Z")
> [@Keymaster](#): > > > [@Sam75](#): > > > > > [@Keymaster](#): > > > > > > FYI VCM with “use merging” off equal regular bidir > > > > I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ? > > > > Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri > > > > Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning. > > grab the newest build, there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies) I use the latest builds It’s easy to replicate, you can use your cornell box scene, turn off direct lights and turn on environment light, you should see those bright edges It can help you to identify the problem: it happens only with geometry without thickness, if I add a shell modifier to my cornell box, the problem is gone, but there seems to be a relation between the thickness amount and the VCM lookup radius. ---
**Author:** ![Zander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecb155/32.png) [@Zander](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Zander)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/36 "2012-12-04T00:39:00Z")
Some screens about noise, first one is PT (only PT no HDcache) second is VCM. ![01.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/4/9/497dbe9e768604e5799329d4cb2ceb143f2c6648.jpeg) ![02.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/chaosprd/original/3X/b/f/bfab9b2ffe932fa449c0ca95d5c95bec1f25028f.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![relox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b5e925/32.png) [@relox](https://forums.chaos.com/u/relox)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/37 "2012-12-04T00:49:26Z")
Hi looks like vcm need more time to render less noise or its more for night lighting, how do i download the alpha version with vcm??? or sam you are a tester for that version that will be released??? thanks i aprecciate any answer. ---
**Author:** ![Chakib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Chakib](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Chakib)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/38 "2012-12-04T01:03:26Z")
> [@Sam75](#): > > Some screens about noise, first one is PT (only PT no HDcache) second is VCM. too much noise… There is no glass and metal in your scene, can you add some ? ---
**Author:** ![tomasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tomasd](https://forums.chaos.com/u/tomasd)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/39 "2012-12-04T08:18:51Z")
If the scene contains no caustics (or even no glass/mirror), then VCM is overkill. It will do lot of heavy lifting to solve problems that are simply not there. For examples of scenes it alone can handle have a look [http://www.smallvcm.com/](http://www.smallvcm.com/) (the complicated scenes from paper). I would look at it as method that opens new artistic opportunities, rather than speeding up the current ways of doing stuff. (At least, that was the hope when we came up with the method) I am afraid there is no silver bullet (yet). I got some ideas for time-adaptive algorithm, that is pretty much unpublishable, but could make production guys happy. (Will bother Keymaster with it once his deadlines are gone). In the meantime, I will have to re-check with him today, but I am pretty sure there is still a bug in his implementation of environment lights. These things are damn hard to catch, especially since the example implementation uses different way of envrionment light (and I am quite sure still has bugs of its own). ---
**Author:** ![Chakib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Chakib](https://forums.chaos.com/u/Chakib)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249/40 "2012-12-04T08:31:34Z")
> [@tomasd](#): > > If the scene contains no caustics (or even no glass/mirror), then VCM is overkill. It will do lot of heavy lifting to solve problems that are simply not there. > For examples of scenes it alone can handle have a look [http://www.smallvcm.com/](http://www.smallvcm.com/) (the complicated scenes from paper). > I would look at it as method that opens new artistic opportunities, rather than speeding up the current ways of doing stuff. (At least, that was the hope when we came up with the method) > > I am afraid there is no silver bullet (yet). > I got some ideas for time-adaptive algorithm, that is pretty much unpublishable, but could make production guys happy. > (Will bother Keymaster with it once his deadlines are gone). > > In the meantime, I will have to re-check with him today, but I am pretty sure there is still a bug in his implementation of environment lights. These things are damn hard to catch, especially since the example implementation uses different way of envrionment light (and I am quite sure still has bugs of its own). Good luck guys your doing great job [Previous page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.chaos.com/t/vertex-connection-and-merging-added/125249.md?page=3)