new workflow - some test renderings

[jujubee]

I think Paulison you may be right that Dell Monitors should be at 1.8, because there was a big change from my old CRT (2.2) to my current Dell 24". When rendered to EXR and adjsuted in PS, I had different values I had to play around with. I will have to test this out.

I'm not tryin to argue - Bernhards information is very useful and it's awesome that he wants to contribute through his experimentations for everyone. But to say that 1.6 Linear produces better results - it may be related to his monitor setup which may be indirectly linearizing an image (aside from exponential.)

I'd be curious if he was to take one of his RWF scenes and render it side by side with Linear 1.6. I think the Linear 1.6 results would turn out better (altho there may have to be slight camera adjustments) than the exponential.

[giraffe]

hi again
I want to ask you what you exactly mean to color-correct your textures in photoshop.
I think you enable your input gamma in max preferences as 2.2

but you also mention something about color-match in photoshop. can you give some information?

and I didnt understand why you input textures with 2.2 gamma, while your gamma in oyur render is 1.6 ?
is this only for compensate the exponential color mapping?
Thanks Bernhard
Now I am working on one exterior scene using gamma. and I get strange results on textures. When some textures are gamma-corrected, they have the result that is expected. But some textures look so strange, over-saturated, like they are levelled in strange way.
So I am trying to learn more about this stuff.

[siliconbauhaus]

typical gamma for lcd's is 1.8 btw

nice images bernhard btw

[paulison]

oh cool thanks... now i may actually get somewhere with the whole LWF concept now that i know to use gamma of 1.8.

I'm going to call it .... PIWF™ !!!

[pinpan71]

oh cool thanks... now i may actually get somewhere with the whole LWF concept now that i know to use gamma of 1.8.

I'm going to call it .... PIWF™ !!!

you wish! you would get into big trouble sice PIWF and PIPAWF is already a global trademark since 2006!

btw: i sell shirts with print through my webshop

[jujubee]

I suppose any workflow would be considered a method of getting consistent results - good or bad, wrong or right.

[bernhard]

I try to find some answers.....

@siliconbauhaus:
thank you very much.

@jujubee:
ok, I know it was just a raugh test, and great to see your tests. I know that usually the Exponential looks more washed out, but like you said, it's also very important to
get the right shutter speed and all the other parameters worked out. Mainly, I decided to use the exponential to avoid "burned out" effects - especially when light comes from outside, or just some interioir lights. Exponential helps me a lot here.

So thx for your kind words, hmm, well I can't say it produces better pictures than any other methods - I repaet: it's just one way that works for me, one way of many others...


@paulison:
Yes, I totally agree, the RWF is just one way of many. For some it will work, for some it will not work. For me it works pretty good, and is a fast and efficient solution.
Maybe I missed to explain some more facts, if it's not totally clear, please let me know.
Additional, yes, different screens, different printers, different results of course.
But basicly it should be the same, and you shouldn't have extreme different results.

I know if you work in a production line, it's hard to switch. That's why i made a lot of tests before. Additional tutorials you can find on my website. I wrote some other stuff for architecture reconstruction, you can find on my website here:

Generell high dynamic range based image lighting:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/hdri.html

Working with IES Lights:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/monaco.html

Lens distortion: How to correct for camera callibration and reconstruction:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/cgstud...istortion.html

Camera callibration and estimating focal length for architectural reconstruction:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/cgstud...libration.html

Architectural Reconstruction:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/cgstud...struction.html

Finally the HDRI Tutorial, which has 8 captures:
http://www.bernhardrieder.com/cgstudies/side_1.html



@giraffe:
ok giraffe, it's hard to explain, so I made you in 2 minutes a short render from one of my previous renderings - I hope you will see what I mean with color correct.



In that scene file, please look at the hedges you can see on the left.
The texture from the hedge looks similar to the texture from the grass, and all others.
It's a mix map in a blend material, basicly two textures are used with different uvw map coordinates, also different uvw for displacement, so you can't see any tiling.

The key is, that these textures do have the same color values - pleaes correct me if they don't have the same color values, I prefer to say values. Maybe someone else specify that as saturation, hue, and anything else.

Now look at that picture:


I took a different texture just straight from the internet. I would say, the texture is very nice, but the colors are not matching 100% perfect with the colors from the first texture I used for rendering.

Why ? Well, there are many reasons. The photo was made on a different day, a very bright and sunny day. Also harder shadows and more saturation compared to the other textures.
Or maybe the hedge really looks just completly different, or the photograph was taken on a different place of course, different camera, different shutter speed, levels, colors, etc....

And that's basicly what I meant... you can take many textures, all kind of textures you can find for free on the internet, also your own textures of course... but what ever you do, and which textures you use in your render - I prefer to try to match the colors first in photoshop before I use these textures in my materials.

Now the question is, how you match colors or textures ?
I think that's a philosphy... I do it basicly in photoshop trieng to get all values similar...
levels, hue, saturation, brighntess, contrast, etc.... once this is done, I use it for rendering....
the human eye is such a perfect organ, that it will tell you immidiately what is wrong in a picture - it tells you also wrong colors, wrong values, and so you get the feeling and you know, well, that object doesn't match with the entire scene file - something is wrong, and so it will not look photoreal.

if you just want to match colors with a 3d background picture, and you use your own hdri (just one example) you can read my HDRI Tutorial -- there is one part that explains exactly the color machting stuff. see abov the link....

But please don't crucifies me if something is wrong - I just made my personell studies, and I can't say it often enough: it's just one way, that doesn't mean perfect or the best... it's kind of art, and taste, and what ever works best for you -
you should do it.

But color matching textures in photoshop, is one very important part in my crazy RWF.

ok, I hope that helps you,
so far so good,
happy rendering,

bernhard

[giraffe]

yes I understand you perfectly.
I think this is one of major things to make.
I am not sure about color values (HUE) but contrast, levels must match to get a clean image.
Honestly problem begins here for me I have hard time in this.
Thanks a lot for your explanation Bernhard.
Best wishes

[bernhard]

RWF for Exterior

Hello friends !

I made now my first tests with the rwf on an exterior project.

Here one quick render:


bernhard

[jujubee]

Very fine image. My only comment is that it needs a punch more yellow from the sun.

[werticus]

I've started a new project today and i'm giving this 1.6 gamma a try.

[Subburb]

Hi, bernhard
Excellent stuff here... !
you last image is really amazing...

i've a very stupid question...
are you typically rendering in Vray VFB or Max VFB ?
if i'm not wrong, the two ones gives different results in terms of lighting.
i've a doubt here, i'm not familiar with lwf (and rwf )things.

Thank you for this clear explanations.

[bernhard]

hmmm

Hello !

@werticus:
let us see your results, would be great....

@subburb:
I usually use the Vray Frame Buffer for rendering... execpt I render motion blur.

bernhard

[giraffe]

hi again
nice result in exterior too.
again expo color mapping?
are u increasing saturation levels?
because in my renders, gamma desaturate thnigs. and exponential color mapping must be destaturating more.
so do u increase saturation on your colors and textures?

but u were using input gamma =2.2 on your textures.(while scene gamma in color mapping is 1.6) no?
does this compensate the saturation?

[bernhard]

sorry for my delay

Hello !

Sorry for my delay, I do have a lot of stress at the moment.

@expo color mapping:
yes

@increasing saturation levels:
no, not in post, not for texture preperation

@inout gamma =2.2
yes, while expo gamma is 1.6

hmm, if this is compensating the saturation alone I am not sure... I don't know how you setup your file and how you made your tests....


I will post soon a RWF INT setup.....


thx,
bernhard