wip from our new musicvideo with vray

[dmartind3]

Amen, give it a rest. Great work by the way. Nice Commercial Art piece. gl0w, 3dworld, any chance of seeing some of your guys work? Do you have a website or anything?

[Fermi]

f.sennholz,

This has been a very proffessional and constructive forum for a long while. I can remember very very few flames, what has happened in this thread is very unusual and stupid.

Of course you are on your right to come back or not.

I do architectural viz, mainly stills, and highly appreciate all posts here be them whatever.

One thing I agree with you; using the word "Art" lightly, only can devaluate and leave it meaningless.

I'd thank you very much if you (and everybody else) were to consider sharing your work with the rest of us in the future.

Cheers

Fermí Bertran
( I know I am not an artist, but only an illustrator)

[jujubee]

Please don't let a couple aholes discourage you. It's going to be like that no matter where you go- and besides they are probably a bunch of immature 15 year olds making bad criticism. The majority of us (I'd like to think) see beyond other people's negative opinions and make unbiased decisions for ourselves.

It takes balls to put up work for critique whether or not it is good or bad. I do enjoy seeing other work than cars and architecture as standard faire and you've got a point there. I'd like to see more of your work in the future.

[Long John]

i would like to see some stuff from the bigmouth gl0w and 3d world.

and my question si still not answerd...

[JK]

I don't understand why many people are calling for an end to such an interesting debate, there have been very few personal flames as far as I can tell and most replies have been fairly constructive and passionate. It seems to me that this topic is quite close to the nerve for quite a few people and perhaps revealing certain things that some people would like to sweep under the carpet for obvious reasons. Nobody likes to have their working methods undermined, and I guess the objections are applicable to a lot of people on this forum.

I don't believe it's fair to call those that have an honest opinion and dislike for such working methods as nothing more than vindictive and bitter, and then questioning their own ability for having a voice, as it's not the *quality* of work that is being brought into question but the methods. That is quite wrong, and more than that the whole subject has become quite organic and seems to extend much further than just a problem with Mr. F sennholz. Most of the discontent seems to be directed at the ethics of it, which therefore includes all those people that choose or resort to the excessive use of stock material. Unfortunately for him I think his post just brought up an issue that is near the forefront of topical debates and concerns facing and affecting all of us (obvious by the number of replies and attention this thread has already received).

To discount and belittle the opinions of a large number of people by saying they have no right to express an objection does nothing more than reinforce their concerns in the first place. It's obvious that those who do not see any problems with using large amounts of unoriginal material will jump in and express their right to do so in a way that does not debilitate and threaten their professional stance/ego. Sweeping it under the carpet is not the way to go about it though.

[Long John]

you have 3 postings, all in this thread JK.
you registered here only for this "interesting" thread?

makes me wonder.....

i think all the artist should go to the left and all the people who make money with 3d to the right.

then we look how many on the left side have a legal vray copy.

with a small team it´s IMPOSSIBLE to make a video like "the cathedral" in 18 days. look how long tomek worked on the cathedral.
lots of robots looks nice but what will you answer a client if he need such a video in 3 weeks?

thats why companys like deespona or dosch making money.
doing architectural stuff is no art, modelling cars after blueprints is no art,
doing beer bottles for advertising is no art ... in my eyes.

it´s quality work when it looks good, no more no less.
but it´s not art. how many autocad/unigraphics modeller who work for bmw or mercedes do better stuff then suurland but would never claim their work art!

[JK]

you have 3 postings, all in this thread JK.

you registered here only for this "interesting" thread?

makes me wonder.....

Hmm, I think you should 'wonder' a little more, learn how to count and then get your facts straight before you comment. Why is it you choose to question my authenticity as a new member of this forum rather than my thoughts/opinions? Now.. that really does make me wonder.. Anyway, when you have the intellectual capacity to make a real contribution then feel free to comment all you like.

The bit below is edited for the attention of Mr. Long John

Interesting how you changed the original comment I replied to, so you could indeed make your input appear to be more than just a personal attack on my character, anyone can edit an original post when they realise they've been a bit of an idiot. It says an awful lot about your credibility as a person, glad to see you're made of high moral fibre. I'm sure it shows in your work..

[Long John]

sure you are registered since 19 july but never found a thread worth writing here.

makes me wonder even more.
looks like a second account for special tasks...

learn to read and you will see what i think about your opinions.

btw:
where can we see your kind of ART JK?
i think people who write such hard critics should be able to show better stuff.

but neither you or gl0w or 3dworld has ever shown something here.

sennholz has the balls to show his stuff, and not for the first time.

you know... everyone can be a bigmouth.

[Long John]

Interesting how you changed the original comment I replied to, so you could indeed make your input appear to be more than just a personal attack on my character, anyone can edit an original post when they realise they've been a bit of an idiot. It says an awful lot about your credibility as a person, glad to see you're made of high moral fibre. I'm sure it shows in your work..

i often edit threads because my english is not that good.
i have edited my thread 10 seconds after i posted it and put that video example in. then i edited it again (after you made your posting) to change "bluebrints" to "blueprints" and i tried to make my example of the video more clear.

so much about your bullshit.
i hope you will be as quiet as you was before when this thread is over.

but i don´t changed the character of my posting towards you, im not a coward who has 2 accounts or more to hide behind.

[flipside]

Nobody wants to close the discussion about the essence of this thread, but you could simply leave the attacks against sennholz behind. But no, when he tries to reply to all the attacks, you take his post and comment on every word he said. That's what started again, for the second time. Carry on with the never ending discussion about 'art', but leave sennholz out of it. We'll check here every year to see if your discussion leads somewhere, or if it's still the same blabbering where everybody will have a different opinion about. Maybe you can start a topic about your favourite color and then try to convince other people of liking that color too. I'm not saying that what you write is unintresting, but you can at least respect other peoples opinions.

[Zandar]

I can't believe I sat here for 20 minutes reading this entire thread. It's like being on friggin CGTalk. I thought this was a rendering forum? LOL

Like some of you, I come from a 2D background. I guess that's why I choose to hand paint most of my textures and maps, and use a lot of my own materials. I also do some modeling (mostly non-organic stuff in MAX, and organic models I sculpt in Zbrush). But I'm also a business man. I've successfully run my own company dealing in graphics and design for the past 7 years now, and when a job calls for something that's going to take a while to model from scratch, sometimes on a shoe-string, you have no choice but to use pre-fab materials. HOWEVER, it's essencial to your reputation as well as your long-term economics to do as much as you possibly can from scratch. Even if that means just texturing everything from scratch and using custom materials.

Also, I think most of us here who use high end rendering software know that there's NO SUCH THING as an instant "art" render. Setting up a quality render (particularly for animation) takes a lot of skill and know-how. You have to deal with lighting, flickering, color saturation, possible render artifacts and contend with setting up good environments, quality textures and materials to get the most out of your render. No one who is new to 3D, and has no skill or experience with high end software is going to buy Vray and suddenly render a masterpiece the same day, even if they did purchase someone else's models. That's utterly ridiculous to even indicate that it's that easy. Rendering in itself is an art. Otherwise, this forum would be DEAD, and no one would need come here.

It's also humorous that some people cry that they have been "fooled" when someone doesn't mention they used a stock pozer model, and in the same sentence say how "identifiable" and "ordinary" they are. It's true, straight out of the box I suppose poser models are flat and ordinary, but there are some folks out there who spend a lot of time customizing and making their own morphs for these stock meshes, and they do come out pretty unique. That would have to be considered art I think.

Anyway, that's my fifteen cents. Bottom line would be this: are you making money with your work? Do people ENJOY what you do? Are YOU happy with your work? If you can answer yes to these 3 questions, then you're doing something right I would say.

[J_Bug]

Zandar:


--Jon

[Syclone1]

nicely put Zandar

-dave

[UBIKmh]

Ooh stop wining and just get to work and make nice images and movies.

You know that 17th century dutch painters (you know the one that are allways admired by all the American tourists) used to paint on each others canvases. When Ruysdael needed people or animals in his paintings he got friends of his to paint them. He couldn't do that himself. That's an early version of ' of the shelve' work.

And please don't confuse Artisan with Artist. Or Illustartor with Artist.

The Turner prize rules.

The music for the video is not that brilliant, but allways better then the original.

Marc

[taboo]

i think, it needs to be original first, to be better than original.

that is what we were talking about.