How to deal with this kind of client?

[jackieteh]

2 days ago, i received a new client request, after i sent my quotation with a price for example: RM4,000 per angle view, the client reply and say they can only pay RM300 per angle view, what will you do or deal with this kind of client?

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

Dont even bother replying. This guy will never send you ever anything above that price level he suggested....unless its a typo and he meant 3000 ))

[glorybound]

If they don't respect your work they'll never respect your time, or anything else. Once in awhile, someone will tell me that they can't afford it and I wish them luck, but I don't budge. I would say most sign anyway. In my experience, the people who complain about money are more difficult to please anyway.

[francomanko]

yeah RM300 is way too low so thats out of the question, but do you know exactly what quality they are after?

The reason i ask is that I've recently had to go really low with some client, just to get some work. But they aren't after 'top end' renders and the quality of the renders i give will take into account the cheap cost. However a lot of their homes are quite similar, so although, initially the hourly rate makes me feel sick, I can improve it a lot by reusing a lot of geo/ materials etc. So hopefully in the end I can bring the hourly rate from depressing to acceptable.

I dont think necessarily its about them 'respecting your work' , could be they dont understand it or require it. Get some examples of what they are after if possible and break it down before dismissing them entirely...but either way...RM300...no no no

[glorybound]

They can't respect what it takes to do a good image, otherwise, they would be willing to pay the price. They don't respect your time if they are not willing to pay you a decent price.

[glorybound]

What's this at dollars? RM300

[Syu_z]

RM stands for Ringgit Malaysia, so it's around 80 USD.

Sadly, it's the common state of interior pricing here, even in Singapore. I deal with these kinds of clients every day. Some even go as low as 40 USD, and thinks 80 USD is too much.
There is not much respect for creative arts here unfortunately. Because some of these interior companies provides the 3D image to clients for free, therefore they are really pinching pennies.

My advice is to spend no more than 2 hours per view, reusing all your old assets and don't even bother balancing the image. Low highlight burn, pump up the contrast in post. Send.
I devised such workflow to actually make money off these types of projects. In my experience, the trade-off is that you can tell them that you will not get exact models (sofa etc) for them but just using something similar. Find something that looks 60-80% similar in 3D websites, download and use. No modelling except for walls and carpentry details.

It is possible to be profitable. There's a whole business in the low-end market, but as an artist, you don't feel fulfilled.
Because it's almost purely digital, and there are numerous free digital assets, coupled with the fact that you can get pirated software at no cost (not condoning it). The only thing you lose is your time and electricity bills, therefore the price is being driven down by people who keeps undercutting everybody's cost (not to mention respect), and sadly there are always takers.

I have the opposite problem as you. Because my first exposure to interior was through these pricing, but I know there are amazing visualizations that cost so much more. I am trying to break into the higher-end market and are pushing my quality everyday to get there.

[JuhaHo]

I think it's not necessary to a good price for every job assignments as long as the average pricing is OK. I simply count those less profitable jobs as mandatory R&D costs.

At the moment I'm considering again what to do with one customer, a large global company. I think there's too many levels in command chain to pass through and each of them can totally explode my job. Not to mention endless tweaking, because each level want to look good in the eyes of their supervisors. I thought I finished this project October last year, but no, it's still after countless iteration rounds under investigation.

[Syu_z]

Ah, the tweaking hell. Yes, i am quite familiar with it. An animation company i worked with sometimes has 3 art directors (?) managing one project, after which it's passed to an agency who has a few people making comments, before showing it to client, who will give more comments, until it's shown to their boss who potentially will comment again. Almost nothing is completed on time.

[glorybound]

I am sorry you guys have to deal with this and I don't know what the answer is. Everything is relative, so maybe $80 is okay for a days pay, but I wouldn't exist working for those fees. Most places in the states will start you off at $12 - $14 an hour for flipping burgers, with vacation, insurance, and sick time (comes out to about $24 - 28 an hour). Changes will kill you too, so after two sets of revisions, I charge per hour for changes. They know this up front, so they make their revision markups count. Guys, you have to manage them and not let them manage you. I have to tell myself this all the time. Be, act, and look professional and they'll take you seriously. Have everything in place, from a professional website to email, to invoicing. Somehow come together and fight this.

[Syu_z]

Oh, I wouldn't exist with 80 either. When there are steady stream of business I usually do 4 views a day. But yeah, the quality is as you expected.

I just took a look at your website. Great rendering. Do you charge different pricing for different complexity? If you don't mind sharing, what's the average ballpark for the pricing for render of such quality?
I am going to start working on the things you said since it's my goal to break into the higher-end market of visualization. I hope you don't mind throwing pointers along the way.

I am interested in how you deal with your final image as well. Do you do any tonemapping and post-production in photoshop?

[glorybound]

Oh, I wouldn't exist with 80 either. When there are steady stream of business I usually do 4 views a day. But yeah, the quality is as you expected.

I just took a look at your website. Great rendering. Do you charge different pricing for different complexity? If you don't mind sharing, what's the average ballpark for the pricing for render of such quality?
I am going to start working on the things you said since it's my goal to break into the higher-end market of visualization. I hope you don't mind throwing pointers along the way.

I am interested in how you deal with your final image as well. Do you do any tonemapping and post-production in photoshop?

Who are you asking?

[Syu_z]

Who are you asking?

Ah I should've been clearer. Sorry about that. I was asking you.

[glorybound]

We’ll, I am flattered!

Yes, I quote each project separately. I think the low flat fee tells the potential client that you are commoditizing your services and it’s not personal and they will not get a personalized service. I quote on a per diem. I know what I need to make a day and I multiple how many days it’ll take me to complete the project. My per diem has been set by doubling the hourly rate of someone with my skill at the studio in the nearest largest city. I double it because they get insurance, retirement, vacation, sick days... For me, a ‘typical’ exterior house is around $900 and if they want the back, it’s another $480. Now, that goes a lot higher for a larger more complex structure. My daily rate is $480 and a ‘typical’ project like this will take me about three days.

I am being transparent, which is rare in our industry. I will get a ton of PM’s telling me I am too cheap and just as many telling me that I am too high

[francomanko]

you are too cheap and too high