NDA question

[fixeighted]

So I deleted a post containing an image of a model I made.
The model is of an existing car which a company customises. This customised version car is all over the internet on various car sites and in articles.
I built the model in my own time.
My client, whose client is the company concerned with customising the car, asked me to take down a video I made containing my model, which I put on my youtube channel and shared with him only.
He reference a 'general' NDA I signed with him and his opinion is that it is covered by that NDA and his client would be somehow annoyed by its existence.
How does that sound from a legal point of view?
My thinking is that if I make a model of something that already exists, using images of it and other images of the original old vehicle as reference, then how can that be anything
other than specifically my work, owned by me and uncoverable by any NDA that normally would cover some proprietary content or otherwise sensitive information?

[Muhammed_Hamed]

I built the model in my own time.

Are you talking about a different version of this model? or the one that you made for this client?

It depends on what you signed honestly, in the automotive industry you should be careful on what you sign, because it can get you in big trouble.
If the said car exists or not, if you signed an NDA about this specific model, you shouldn't share it period (or anything that looks like it)

[Muhammed_Hamed]

If it is something you never worked on for this client..I'm not sure why would they care.. it is awkward honestly
Depending on what you signed again, you would know if this is legal or not

[fixeighted]

Yeah I know automotive can be serious, having worked on new F1 stuff that was kinda secret
It's just that this one is a bit odd really. My client is an agency who has as a client this company. My client asked me to cost the building of the model but their client was
in a rush so used photos instead. It's not a new model but one from the 90s which they renovate and customise.
It's all over the internet, on their website as well as many others, so I honestly can't see
what would be in any way secret about it.
Anyway, I went ahead and built their version thing as a bit of fun - after all, the basic car version has been around for over 20 years - all they are changing is the engine and bits of other stuff, - all of which is seen in any amount of imagery already.
I'm loathe to ask my client for the NDA as it's nothing I personally signed but is more of an amicable agreement.

Thanks for the response anyway....I'll have to consider my options if I want to make any cash out of my work

[Joelaff]

IANAL, but... Generally once knowledge has leaked either intentionally or unintentionally and become public knowledge then it is no longer considered confidential and you can release said information as well.

So if you are working on a concept for a new product and the product is released, your rendering of it (assuming it is the same) is no longer confidential. One could argue earlier versions not released to the public were still confidential, however.

But of course it depends on what you signed because a lot of “NDA” contracts are not just NDAs, but more broad contracts that might assert rights to images or models, etc. If you have questions politely ask your client. This is the best approach, as it also maintains a good relationship. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

[fixeighted]

In this particular case, one article I just found about this car is from 2018 Jan, so it's been around for ages LOL.
The images in the article are the same ones I used to build my model.
My client is only doing the revamp of their website, with a configurator of sorts, so I am simply nonplussed at his request that I not have something posted that is clearly in the public domain.
All I can think of is that he somehow is annoyed that I have the model built but without having secured any money from his client to build it, so he thinks he won't benefit, plus the client will be annoyed that there is now a model that he hasn't asked for that is circulating.
Even though it is not circulating, as I haven't made it public.
People can be so weird...

[Neilg]

NDA's dont just cover the object within the image, they cover the presentation of the object. The client may feel that the stylistic choices don't represent their brand and the NDA (which doesn't cover the existence of the car, but does cover your direct involvement in it's representation) gives them the ability to control that.

It would be extremely poor form for me to use architecture from a past project to do some apocalyptic destruction scene - I know at least 5 clients who would try and shut that down with a legal threat instantly and that's because I work for the studio that was hired to represent the final product and all things associated with us are also tied to it. but someone who models it from scratch in their personal time is so clearly not at all linked to it there's nothing they can do.

They did react a bit strongly, and in your case probably could have left it up, but they're protecting their relationships and don't want to end up giving you an inch for someone else to take a mile. Easier to have a blanket no policy than try to navigate all the exceptions.

[fixeighted]

Thanks Neil; that's a very logical, albeit rather scary interpretation of what this can represent

To be honest I have never read any NDA. I've had them in the past but they've made zero difference to me as I do the job and move on to the next with that job forgotten.
I just don't have interest in sharing info with anyone - plus nobody I know is remotely interested in what I do anyway
I understand their importance however.

Anyway, I have looked into it and the only time an NDA is mentioned before this is when my client emailed me, forwarding a bunch of emails from his client.
He said that these emails were NDA, which is fine. We have a good and long-time friendly relationship and so this assumption was valid.

However, the situation actually is that there is no NDA in existence to prevent me from doing any of this - I signed nothing; but it would be unfortunately rash of me to react badly as that would risk potential
further work from them (although they get such a good deal from me that that would be stupid lol ). I think I need to engineer a discussion which has it work out rationally

The most bizarre thing about this is that what I built is a faithful representation of the product that can only benefit their client.
It was meant as a alternative for photo-shoots to save them money (that was his original pitch to me), plus the basis for them to more accurately represent what they wanted to do in their configurator online.
The video I made was simply a 'drive' test on random terrain to exhibit the car's dynamics and what it was possible to do, should they require it.
That he think that they would feel that it was inappropriate is just plain odd.

Thanks for all the comments guys; it's helpful to have some other views to contemplate.

Here is part of the project, NDA be damned!

[^Lele^]

How does that sound from a legal point of view?

Not what you'd like to hear, i'm sure, but get a good lawyer to cooperate with, for rights management.
It's intricate stuff (Rather it's a whole lot simpler when everything stays secret. Not at all so when something leaks.), if my previous production contracts are anything to go by.
There is room for exploitation on both sides, generally, so professional counseling is what i'd look for immediately, in case of a litigation of any sort (unless, ofc, i simply complied with the requests.).

[fixeighted]

Hehe, it's never going to go that way, thankfully. I will however look into exactly what rights I have, purely out of interest.
If you know where I might look for such stuff I'd be grateful, other than an actual lawyer.
These guys are cool - it's just this particular situation is very odd and I hate being put in a situation where I feel cornered - especially when my intentions are all good.

My guess is that they will eventually have need of the model's capabilities, for which they will be paying handsomely

[^Lele^]

I've been too long removed from those types of contract and locations to be able to give you any sound advice, i'm afraid.
Know however i'll be rooting for you to raise that fee. and again. and again. ^^

[fixeighted]

LOL yeah I really must raise it...they get away with waaay too much

[Neilg]

The purpose of many non-disclosures isnt to prevent you sharing the work, in the case of a project not launching or being cancelled it's to prevent you from talking about ever having done it or knowing it exists. You essentially become a paper trail of their failed ventures if you can post about work that was never completed.
In your case it's extreme, and you could fight it and probably win, but it's really not a fight worth having. chalk it up to experience, get written NDA's in future, add clauses to your own contract that if the product/work is public then so is your image by association for portfolio purposes and will be listed as undisclosed/undisclosed.

If you take a look through dbox's portfolio you'll see a ton of work where the architect and location are listed as 'undisclosed' - there are still some projects under lock and key which we cant show at all, ever, but the generally accepted way to present un-built work is to present it in a way that gives it no identifying information, and usually with a very lengthy delay (12+ months) between it being shelved and you showing the work.

[fixeighted]

Yeah I can see your point and that is fair enough, if you know that is the case initially.
The odd thing with my example is that it is already completely open to anyone on the planet to look at and do exactly what I have done, which is build a replica from already available images.

[rusteberg]

It would be extremely poor form for me to use architecture from a past project to do some apocalyptic destruction scene

... it's all going to end up that way anyways. the design world is waaaaaay too pretentious. i keep a starbucks job application in my desk drawer for this very reason. haven't used it yet, but there's been some close calls.