Deposit and Deliverable

[glorybound]

I know we have talked about this in the past, but I thought I would get a fresh perspective.

Do you start a job without a deposit? Do you deliver final deliveries with the balance paid in full?

I require a deposit and balance paid in full on every project, both old and new clients. Really, nobody ever questions it, or at least almost nobody. I now have a client for who I did a couple of jobs for and after a long ZOOM meeting the other day, yesterday I got an email asking for images by early next week. My reply was, if the contract is signed and the despot is received right away, I'll do what I can to get them low-resolution proofs that they can review online. This was yesterday, and she called today, left a message, and an email, telling me how important it is that her team gets their rendering by their client meeting, and she'll do her best to get me a deposit within the month. As I mentioned yesterday, I replied that it isn't a job unless I receive the deposit, and I don't release images until the final balance is paid in full. I also mentioned that I make it easy to pay me online, and I accept all major credit cards.

Am I too, stern? I mean, it is business. Last year I got stiffed once and this year twice. Also, cash flow is key; don't they get that? I feel like telling her team to take their week's paycheck to pay me and when their accounting departments send me the deposit I'll make them whole. Why don't people get this, they would say, "how would I pay my bills and feed my family!".

[glorybound]

The few projects that I got stiffed on was the balance. I called a lawyer and he said, "forget it, nobody cares about an out of state judgment". So, basically, the contract isn't worth the paper that it is written on. I never started without a deposit and for the last couple of years, I don't send finals until the balance is paid in full.

[Morbid Angel]

Those are solid rules, I would not change them for anyone. If these clients want the renderings fast, they will find a way to pay. If they can't, I wouldn't expect them to pay later either. Probably just avoid working with them all together, saves you the hassle later.

[glorybound]

Thanks for the confirmation. I have people all the time who need things right away, want to send a check, but wire transfer because I don't start without a deposit. Some clients who work for large companies run to get the company credit card and even some, use their own card and they get reimbursed by their employer. Really, use someone else's money to boost your credit score . I don't need cash flow right now, thank God, but that is also part of it.

[fixeighted]

Lockdown has hit me very hard and I basically have one client at the moment, for whom I have done many projects over the years.
In the past I had someone else who was dealing with them as their client and was as strict as you are with these conditions; but they quit and I bought their business, so I now deal directly with them.

I do not have a contract as such and I have not been hurt by that.
Until recently, when I quoted them on a project and as usual it went over. I can normally absorb this as it is small. however they basically seem like they are now dictating what they will pay based on how simple they 'feel' the job is, or how 'easy' any changes, which on this one are many, varied and extremely time consuming.
I calculated that this project has me effectively working for £8 an hour, so when it is done I will either tell them to fuck off or I will implement a strict conditional approach as you have for any future work with them.

I'm tired of people's BS and frankly, despite lack of work, would rather have nothing than feel like their adolescent intern

So, thanks for posting another one of these, as it gets me sympathetically angry enough to act

[JezUK]

I am that strict myself (once got the p*ss taken by one company years ago having to wait 3 months to get paid - and that was the last time I let that ever happen).

Furthermore, I also stipulate that nothing gets started until I see their money (aka commitment) in my account. I simply don't want to waste my time nor have it playing on my mind.

So, they delay payment, it delays commencement and possibly delivery time....

I take 50% deposits (if big project), or payment in full first (if 'small' project). Those are my terms, as it's me doing the work (remotely) so I get to choose how I want to be paid.

My mindset in all of this is that I love 3D and have never had the desire to be a debt collector....

(I honestly cannot remember me ever losing any work opportunity because of my position on all of this).

[glorybound]

Yeah, the 30/60/90 payables only work for them and are for their cashflow woes; it'll bury a small business. The "I pay you when I get paid" is ridiculous, too.

A guy stiffed me a few years ago popped up this year with the same speech. It was apparent that he didn't remember me and trolls the internet for suckers. He reached out with two projects, and the same week, a new person with the same email domain reached out about three projects. I ignored the repeat offender and entertained the second lead. I sent her the quote, she approved it and ignored the deposit request. After a month of deposit reminders and her asking for progress images that I forwarded her the deposit invoice, she fell off the map.

We have to protect ourselves from scammers and our own financial health. We also have to sound professional and not desperate. I have been blessed, and I haven't had time for a new project in 5 years. I would like to double my rate and take 1/2 of the projects that come in.

These people who want to make their own rules should live by them. I can guarantee that they get paid upon delivery, and they require a deposit. Sometimes I feel sorry for the people who work there, who's hands are tied, but it isn't my problem. As I wrote earlier, I have clients who use their personal credit cards, and they get reimbursed by their company.

As a follow-up to the immediate situation, I woke up to an email from this client and they have overnighted a full-payment check.

Another reason to stay firm on your protocols is, crap happens. I have had people who I was working with getting fired or leave the company. Projects die, clients lose interest... One guy didn't pay me the balance because his client fired him. Last Christmas I had someone email me three large projects, I sent the quotes that day and he paid his deposit ($17,000+). I did all the grayscale, posted them for review, and I haven't heard back since.

Having written this, do you guys take a write off. The last lawyer I talked to, who said nobody cares about an out of state judgment, said to take it as a loss. I am not really sure if he meant literally or figuratively. I'll ask my tax guy this year.

[Morbid Angel]

Last Christmas I had someone email me three large projects, I sent the quotes that day and he paid his deposit ($17,000+). I did all the grayscale, posted them for review, and I haven't heard back since..

This is interesting. I don't think I ever encounter this kind of scenario. Its possible they will comeback at some point and ask for money back

For the profit gain vs profit loss. Any business has both, its part of business and the % of gain vs loss depends on how well you run the business. For me, I generally work with long time clients. All of them pay, though some pay much later then others. I trust them though. My issue is that I have to hire people and manage them, and this is where I might have a loss, because some one can spend a lot of time and budget on something and didn't finish it, then I have to pick up after them.

[squintnic]

I would stick to what you are doing. She sounds desperate and unprofessional, trying to shift the onus of responsiblity onto you when its her issue.
Stick to your guns and it will keep shady operators like this at arms length. Let her know she has no leverage with you untuil you are professionally engaged.

[glorybound]

This is interesting. I don't think I ever encounter this kind of scenario. It's possible they will come back at some point and ask for money back

I thought about that, but all the modeling is done, so I can easily say that was half the work. I posted all the grayscales that month.

[glorybound]

Follow up... No deposit yet... they wanted the first round for their meeting Monday, and they have been emailing me today questioning the quote and telling me that their client doesn't want to pay that much. See, this is why you hold your guns. Their client would have never seen the quote until at least Monday had I not held my guns. Drama avoided!

[Morbid Angel]

Follow up... No deposit yet... they wanted the first round for their meeting Monday, and they have been emailing me today questioning the quote and telling me that their client doesn't want to pay that much. See, this is why you hold your guns. Their client would have never seen the quote until at least Monday had I not held my guns. Drama avoided!

Good you did it. Just keeps it professional.