Creative Control

[glorybound]

It is called conversation, no? My initial post was, do you guys have anything in your contracts about creative control? I know you said that you do the opposite. How do you handle someone making bad calls? I learned not to share proofs without a proof stamp across it, so it doesn't get out in the wild; it has your name on it. How does that not apply with finished work?

[rusteberg]

There's a difference between a conversation and a rant. In a conversation, each party listens to the other. In a rant, one party just continues to harp on about something without listening.

[glorybound]

This has become a very hostile place to try to get advice. see-YAH!

[fixeighted]

I've done some horrible stuff that couldn't have been saved, no matter what. Egos, bad architecture, badly chosen (insisted on) views, materials, design, lack of budget, lack
of detail, lack of common sense etc. all make some jobs a total pain and yeah, bury them deep LOL.
I wouldn't worry about it. If they had control then they had control and you can only advise them so much. Job done, move to the next.
Out of your portfolio it's likely a tiny % that are/will be like this one.


EDIT: Jez...it's a rant....who doesn't like a nice rant?! I love 'em

[JezUK]

I'd call it more like venting about your paying clients. Take a deep breath Bobby, it's all good.

[fixeighted]

I think it's ok to do that. Some of them are insufferable

[glorybound]

Oh, I am chill (like my daughter likes to say). I just need to find another place to get industry advice, I guess. This was a great place. A lot of people worked for large studios and had awesome advice. Where are these people today?

• What do the studios do?
• How do contracts address this?
• Is the "ego" a red flag?

I got a lead today and it said, "Sir", and mentioned a state and specified "US" after the state. Red flags that this isn't a real client and is probably someone wanting to know what they should charge. Do I need to better pre-qualify my projects to avoid these kinds of projects? Running a small business is far more than building a model and putting color on it if you want to be successful. I miss that talk and this probably isn't the place anymore.

[rusteberg]

do you guys have anything in your contracts about creative control? I know you said that you do the opposite. How do you handle someone making bad calls? I learned not to share proofs without a proof stamp across it, so it doesn't get out in the wild; it has your name on it. How does that not apply with finished work?

You're switching topics here.

Usually, I have creative control over almost everything.

That is subjective.

many of you know what you are doing.

True.

my clients called all the shots against my advice

That's generally what clients do in any industry

the guy is clueless.

subjective

my opinion didn't count for much

welcome to the real world

I audibly cringed

I would advise against that

I am going to tell this client not to give me a mention when he uses these images.

You'd be making it personal if you did that. Not a good business decision.

We are at a point that they are out of revisions and out of money.

Tell them that.

Do you have anything in your contract that says that they have to give creative control if they want a good image?

Again, purely subjective.

Any thought?

see above

[rusteberg]

I just need to find another place to get industry advice, I guess.

it's (advice) being given to you in spades. you simply don't have any desire to listen to it.

[JezUK]

This was a great place................... Running a small business is far more than building a model and putting color on it if you want to be successful. I miss that talk and this probably isn't the place anymore.

I actually think that's pretty offensive. I mean, there are a TON of great people on here and you've received an absolute sh*tload of free advice about your images over the years and 16000+ posts you've made.

Seriously Bobby, take a good look at what you're writing here. Bitching about paying clients isn't a good look.

[rusteberg]

• What do the studios do?
• How do contracts address this?
• Is the "ego" a red flag?

Those are things you're going to have to learn for yourself out there in the real world.... not some internet forum

[piotrus3333]

I wouldn’t call it a rant, just healthy venting. what better place for it than here?

You did the right thing to discuss and explain your perspective to the client. Obviously not “they f-up not me” but “I did fail to convince them they are about to f-up” way. giving him free images is a bit to much I guess. he should definitely see them if you have time to spare but let him learn the expansive lesson.

not a fan of gray clay images. unskilled people just aren’t able to read them properly to make decisions. the ideal is to show 100% finished illustration and allow one revision. humans respond nicely to simple rules and limited choices.

[fixeighted]

I think it's probably better to stay here if you continue using Vray. Non-specific stuff I guess you can ask in others but there are many in various roles here who have relevant experience, but.....
It all comes down to personal preference I think. I am generally extremely tolerant but realise that some of my clients have been fools, or are rude/demanding, or exhibit some other trait which makes me not want to work with them.
Goes with the territory really...life territory that is
I've come across them all I think, over the 25 years I've been working in this area. Only one of them I've actually told to go away. The rest have either disappeared 'organically' or I've been 'too busy' to help.

There is not a single manageable method of dealing with people, in general, so really my opinion is that it's job-specific and you have the power to either agree to work for them or to engineer
a way out of doing so.

[glorybound]

I do appreciate your guys... My apologies... Round of drinks, on me! I meant a good place for business advice

Yes, however, the forum seems dead. I appreciate your comments. This was a bustling place to openly talk about anything related to our craft. I thought my question was pretty simple, and basically, I feel I am being told to shut up and be lucky that I have work. If that is the case, then it is personal and is why I feel resentment.

Not all projects will wind up in your greatest hits folder, for sure. I just found it odd that a more significant % of my projects lately have gone this way. Did I hit a threshold of frustration, yes? Do you guys see the same? How do you handle it? With these projects with bad decisions being made, I have been dealing with some pretty lousy architecture. Now, I am not an authority on architecture, but gosh, some bad stuff has been coming in.

I am looking for a video that I watched about a year ago that talks about these trends and why we need to eliminate the revision mindset, which gives our clients the liberty to make bad decisions. This was a topic awhile back, so I know it is even more relative today.

Anyway... I need to make myself pretty for a ZOOM meeting .

[rusteberg]

A glossary of topics covered today in your therapy session:

- Creative Control
- Zoom calls
- Revisions
- Contracts
- Role as Visualization artist
- Your Ex Wife
- Past girlfriends
- Current wife
- Doctors
- Emails from strangers
- Running a small business
- Egos
- Third party consultants
- Bad Architecture
- Software
- Bombing an Autodesk U class
- The US government
- Cars
- Car shows
- Boneheads
- Donuts