Announcement

**Gijs** · 19-08-2005, 01:20 AM

First of all, in this situation, I wouldn't mail or phone them, but visit them to be able to talk face to face. (if the client isn't too far away).
Then you will be able to explain better what it takes too produce good quality images. If you say the quality will be less, it is difficult for them to judge 'less'
Also, I would point them on the fact that you wouldn't have taken the job in the first place, if you were given only six days, because you are aiming for high quality not high quantity. The best is to keep your standpoint and be honest about it. Don't let them push you into another direction, even if you need the money. You want to make the client happy, but they need to give you the freedom to do so.

**gilicom** · 19-08-2005, 01:21 AM

I was thinking of replying back and saying, "Well that is going to mean the quality of the final image will be less."

I think that is an answea i would go with , think about it that you will finish the job faster and after the'll print the brouchure they won't give you more comments on the job.

**stephan_MA** · 19-08-2005, 03:23 AM

hire a friend to help you. charge more...

**percydaman** · 19-08-2005, 05:27 AM

ya i would tell them the quality is going to suffer and I would charge them out the ass.

**tricky** · 19-08-2005, 07:17 AM

This is a difficult, yet common situation.

When I first started out, potential clients wanted work done in what I considered at the time to be too short a timescale. I said, "sorry, I can't do that in that amount of time". Those clients never came back.

In my opinion, I would bust a gut to impress them - work late - work early. Just get the job done. Don't do an all-nighter. It never pays. Don't say quality will not be as good. Instead, say that in the available timescale, there will be very little time, if any, for client feedback and implementation of any minor changes. A good image takes time. A reduced timescale may mean less time for the little nips-n-tucks that you like to apply. Trying to charge more may confuse things too much. Keep it simple. After all, in 6 days, the job will be done and you can sleep then!

The most important thing I have learned is not to piss off a client. They won't come back. (obviously, there can be exceptions to this rule)

**percydaman** · 19-08-2005, 09:21 AM

a client that signed a contract for work to be produced after 14 days, then come back and ask for it in 4 days, dont have much room to complain. They are either in a real tight spot, and should be willing to pay gobs more, or are trying to yank your chain, and you dont want them as a client anyways.

**Dynedain** · 19-08-2005, 09:37 AM

There is a contract for X amount of money in Y amount of days.

If they come back and want to change X or Y (dX, dY), that's a change in contract. If you can do it in the dX or dY you should let them know, but it means tha both dX and dY need to change.

If they had come to you from the get go and said we want it done in 6 days. What would you have said? What would have been the price? That's a new contract they're asking for. The point is, there's a contract, and thats protecting you from them abusing you over schedule or price. If they want to change the terms of the contract, all the terms are up for change.

Also, let them know that changing the scope of work, schedule, or budget incurs delays from dealing with the changed needs.

**tricky** · 19-08-2005, 09:54 AM

There are some strong thoughts being raised here. Its an interesting thread. I think one thing to think about is your competition - if you say "no way", or ask for more money, or say "tough shi*!", you risk the client going away and never coming back, and possibly using one of your competitors who can get things done quicker**. You could play the "You Signed A Contract" card, which you are more than valid to do so, but again, you risk losing the client on future jobs.

Its always a balancing act.

**I don't know about where you are, but there are quite a few 'factory' type companies starting up who guarantee instant starts and rapid turnarounds. I just hope they are all crap at actual high quality image production!

**Dynedain** · 19-08-2005, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by tricky

you risk the client going away and never coming back

If you sign a contract for 14 days, and then the client comes back and asks for it in 6, and you comply, then they will do the same thing over and over to you. We've had experience with clients doing that. If you cave in to their whims and wishes, then they will consistently abuse that.

The professional thing to do, and maintain your protection and flexibility is to say:

a) Yes, I can shorten the time frame to what you want, however it will incurr extra costs because of the accelerated schedule (give them a number)

b) No, I can't shorten the time frame to what you want, but I can shorten it to this many days. However, it will incurr extra costs because of the accelerated schedule (again, give them a number)

c) No, I can't shorten the time frame without sacrificing the quality of the work. If the scope of work or expected level of quality is reduced, something closer to your new deadline might be achieved (opens the door for them to make the project simpler in order to get results)

All 3 of these are great ways to give them options and make them feel empowered, without sacrificing your credibility, or taking away the guarantees you had in your contract (budget, timeframe, amount of work, etc). This kind of situation comes up all the time in architecture. The rule of thumb is (but saying it to a client sounds crass) Pick 2 of the 3: Budget, Schedule, Quality. Improving one will invariably hurt the other two.

So, pick which of the 3 options I listed as being the one applicable to your situation (I would recommend option 'c' over the other two as it gives you the greatest flexibility) and tell your client. If you don't let them walk over you, and you maintain a professional attitude (without offending them! don't sound like the aloof artist!) they will respect you, and will respect how you handle your business.

**percydaman** · 19-08-2005, 01:07 PM

well put. If you allow clients to walk over you, too many of them will. This is a business, and if they can shaft you, they'll laugh over it while throwing back a beer after work on friday, thinking how good businessmen they are.... and youll be the sucker who just wanted to make everyone happy....

**rpc212** · 19-08-2005, 01:26 PM

Thank you all so much for your replies! It really helps to have this kind of input and support from fellow 3D artists.

I think Dynedain, you make excellent points with your last post above. I think your "c" option is the way to go. This client is big and has many developments going on so I don't really want to piss them off as I'll likely get further work from them.

At the same time I am pissed off they turn around like they have and basically ask for something above and beyond the contract that they signed the day before basically because they are disorganised. I guess it comes down to, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!"

Anyway I'll let you all know what happens.

I guess I'll be saying in my dreams, "Oh, for the love of excellent clients that just let you do your work and don't make a fuss!"

Thanks again,

**Da_elf** · 19-08-2005, 04:55 PM

On all my contracts i have at the end

Any changes made to project on the part of the client after work has begun will incure a price change. Rush Status on the project will also have a higher price than originally quoted due to overtime work needed.

basically this covers my ass on most things a client can throw my way. and since its in the contract i gladly point it out to them each time. Anytime they try to sweet talk into extra work i would have to evaluate what it is they want, what my relations with that client is and then if im going to grab them by the balls to make the changes i simply inform them that im running a business just the same that they are and if they wouldnt expect to give something to one of their clients for free then how could they expect me to do the same. usually its really good honey-coat what you say so as not to offend anyone (unless it gets to that point that its needed hehehe)

**Morbid Angel** · 19-08-2005, 05:43 PM

well said Dynedain, imo you cant physically make work amount of even 10 days in 6...and make it look as good, because you will need to work night and day with no breaks, and thus making you tired, you will make mistakes and problems will arrise. I think the guys expressed everything that should be done very well here, so I say tell the client the actual time you can make it in, or tell the client to pay extra to hire more ppl, or the quality loss.

**cpnichols** · 19-08-2005, 05:46 PM

It is the old theory of 2 out of 3. Where lets say you want a monkey flying a helicopter tomorrow. You can get the monkey in a helicopter, but not tomorrow, or you can get the monkey tomorrow, but not in a helicopter.

Basically it is a-Do it cheap, b-Do it fast, c-Do it well. You can get 2 out of the 3.

Same with Binoculars

a - Needs to be small, b - Needs to be bright, c - Need to magnify a lot

... boy, I'm ranting a lot today. It must be friday and I am short a beer.

Happy Friday everyone!

Announcement

Client trying to fast track project

Client trying to fast track project

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment