Pricing - the most difficult task in 3D-graphics

[JuhaHo]

Sounds like you've got it all sorted out then! Good luck with it

I didn't understand what You mean that. Maybe there's a reason, why people often call me autistic.

[glorybound]

I see it as seeing what someone with your experience is making in the nearest and largest city near you and double it. If a senior illustrator makes $50 an hour and you are a senior illustrator, you charge $100 per hour. That senior illustrator at that company is getting benefits, which his employer pays. Use that as a gauge to price your work. Flat fees are lame and make you look unprofessional (personal opinion). Quote each project uniquely because each project is unique. The estimate starts using your hourly number, which should not be shared with your client. You estimate how long it will take you to complete the project, and you do the math. This should be your base, which you will not go under. NOBODY should be doing $200-$300 images. If you are getting half of the project you quote, your numbers are good. If you are getting them all, your numbers are too low.

Try parting out your service (hypothetically). Find out what a good modeler, a talented texture artist, a lighting artist, and a color grader will charge. You'll see that none of these people will touch your project, doing just their specialty for anything close to what you are charging for the whole project.

Once you get into the grove, estimating becomes easy. It isn't personal; it is business.

When I worked as an illustrator for a large design builder a decade ago, they billed me $125 an hour. These low-balling clients probably make huge profits off of people, triple charging what they are paying the illustrator. WAKE UP!

[JuhaHo]

Thanks Bobby,

I seldom need to quote. The last written quotation was years ago. Normally they just send me models and instruction on what they need. When images or animation gets accepted by the client side, I just make a suggestion what the pricing could be. I'm looking for a way to simplify pricing so I'm considering this pricing model, I introduced. The pricing should be dynamic and transparent. Not every project have to be profitable.

[glorybound]

Do you work on something without a price? In my opinion, there has to be a meeting of the minds, or it isn't a project. I have had people hound me for progress, not paying their deposit, and the loop continues until they realize that it isn't a project unless they pay the deposit. There have been people who have had a rush project. They tell me the deposit is in the mail, and when I follow up, I am told that the project fell through. No contract/deposit, no work! People respect when you are a professional, and professionals have their stuff together.

[JuhaHo]

Thanks Bobby,

Yes, I do. In normal situation people don't know what they want until I make some guessing by rendering.

I was left without payment once and that was 90's. The problem there was, that there were too many companies involved, but they could decide who should pay me. It was a building site abroad. I got the assignment from architecture company, who told me to seen my invoice to construction company since it was their project.

Then I made recently one project to a long time client (since 1995). They needed something, but there was no could not pay for it. I told them, whatever benefits them benefits me and didn't ask any money. I cant translate the reason. Google translator says "Place of issue" and copilot "cost centre". I don't know which one is correct if any.

[JuhaHo]

Returning to the price model itself. I think Starting price per project might not be a good idea. What if I go to per scene pricing. Scene in this context does not mean Max scene or scene model. In my definition scenes become separate when linear timeline is discontinued. Would this work?

[JuhaHo]

So I managed to negotiate this deal. First 10 seconds for free and after that 40€/second. Client consider this to be very expensive, but eventually agreed with me.

What do others think this pricing model? This is the best I can get.

[francomanko]

Giving 10sec for free isnt a good pricing model, its a good freebie model. Would the client do anything for you for free?

Have you taken into account how long each frame takes to render, client changes, tests, rerenders?

[glorybound]

No, never give away anything for free. I smell a skunk! What, you gave away $400?

[JuhaHo]

No, never give away anything for free. I smell a skunk! What, you gave away $400?

We have mass unemployment here and the trade union has orchestrated massive strikes in the area, and as a result, the economy is severely affected. That's why I'm happy every invoice I send, even if I can't write everything down to it.

[Pixelcon]

We have mass unemployment here and the trade union has orchestrated massive strikes in the area, and as a result, the economy is severely affected. That's why I'm happy every invoice I send, even if I can't write everything down to it.

I don't get why you ask for opinions, then immediately reject them when presented. What's the point in even having a conversation?

I'm no less convinced you're not a bot...



On another note, I'd love to take you up on your free 10 seconds of work offer. I will need 20 10-second animations. Can you provide me with a quote?

[JuhaHo]

I don't get why you ask for opinions, then immediately reject them when presented. What's the point in even having a conversation?

I'm no less convinced you're not a bot...

Are we meant to talk about the subject matter or the conversationalists?

[glorybound]

I don't know how this conversation went south. I am sure everyone has their own unique situation. However, giving something away means the same in all situations. Someone is benefiting from your work, but it isn't you. My fear is they will likely not need more than 10 seconds of animation at the end.

[JuhaHo]

I don't know how this conversation went south. I am sure everyone has their own unique situation. However, giving something away means the same in all situations. Someone is benefiting from your work, but it isn't you. My fear is they will likely not need more than 10 seconds of animation at the end.

Thanks,

It's also matter how I can justify the price to myself and to my client. In the beginning I thought my original pricing model could be issue with long animations (and I was right). Now when I know where the pricing boundary on client side is, I made another calculation. If I use original starting fee of 950€ + VAT (including 10 seconds), 50€ /second for first minute and after that 25€ /second, I get almost the same end price, that I got now with 10 first seconds for free. Then I would not give anything for free. The downside of this model is, that it's a bit more complex and may cause confusion amongst clients.

So in both models one minute of technical animation would cost 3 450€+VAT.

This would also cover Pixelcon kind of inquiries above.

[dlparisi]

It's also matter how I can justify the price to myself and to my client. In the beginning I thought my original pricing model could be issue with long animations (and I was right). Now when I know where the pricing boundary on client side is, I made another calculation. If I use original starting fee of 950€ + VAT (including 10 seconds), 50€ /second for first minute and after that 25€ /second, I get almost the same end price, that I got now with 10 first seconds for free. Then I would not give anything for free. The downside of this model is, that it's a bit more complex and may cause confusion amongst clients.
.

To me this pricing doesn't seem logical. I don't know what your modeling, texturing, lighting, etc time is for a job like this but it seems like the setup time to add an animation should be closer to at least half the cost of the job, or double what you're charging, about 1800€. This is similar to the way the cost comes down after 1 minute. Setting up a still image is not the same as an animation, IMO, I'd start with something like a 15 second animation at 1750€, up to the first minute is then 40€ per sec with 25€ after that. Using those numbers would mean a 1 minute animation is 3550€ (adjust as necessary.) I just think the work involved for an animation is greatest at the beginning with it easing up the longer the animation goes. Imagine a client seeing a 20 second animation and saying "it looks great, but can we slow it down". Those increase in frames costs you very little but setting up the initial 20 seconds involved a bunch of setup, software, knowledge and experience.