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**DaForce** · 01-12-2005, 11:40 PM

was it just a verbal agreement at this point? or had they signed a contract for the new work?

I dont think there is much you can do honestly.

**Dynedain** · 01-12-2005, 11:45 PM

In the future, don't start work untill you have a signed contract and an initial (non refundable) depost and the rest due on completion. Usually 50% works well. This insures that they aren't yanking your chain and are actually serious about having work done. And it ensures that if they pull the plug on the project, you are at least partially compensated for the time you have spent on it. It's very difficult to collect money for time spent on a project after it has been cancelled. Especially if you don't have a written contract in place.

**rpc212** · 02-12-2005, 01:13 AM

DaForce: It was an agreement via email. I gave them a quote and they agreed via email to have the work done. Looking back I should have had them sign a contract immediately upon their agreement to go ahead with the project, however, they seemed very eager and then strung me along saying we'll have the CAD files at such and such a date. I then would contact them and they would always say that we'll have the files 2 weeks from now or our director of real estate sales needs to review the colours and we'll send you the files when he has done this. The point is they agreed via email that they will move forward with the work and will get the files to me as soon as they can. Then they just decide, out of the blue, to not go ahead. Mean while I've waited and missed other work while they have been clearly unorganised and screwing around!

Dynedain: I usually do get a signed contract and 50% deposit. However I thought I could trust these clients as they seemed in such a hurry and made such a fuss about getting all the information together.

I'm kicking myself for not getting them to sign a contract immediately, however, they are the ones that delayed and then, at their convenience, cancelled the project after agreeing to having the project done!

**roppin** · 02-12-2005, 01:43 AM

I guess an e-mail is an agreemant that holds befor an arbitrator.

**Gijs** · 02-12-2005, 02:16 AM

Personally I would ask them if there is anything else you can do for them. But also mention the fact that you are disappointed because you refused other jobs because of it. Things like that happen. Besides, you haven't put any work into it yet. Just be open and show your frustation (politely)

**DaForce** · 02-12-2005, 03:40 AM

Damn shame mate. Its a pity they worked it that way.

But I reckon no matter how much you trust a client, always get them to sign a contract even if your just waiting for them to get the files. Or tell them that you will have to take work in the mean time so there might be a delay when they want to start.
After all it is "business"

Atleast you didnt put heaps of work into it before they pulled out!!

**trick** · 02-12-2005, 04:03 AM

Actually, for court this does not hold. You should always include a last date in your contract, on which you should have received all the data you need for your work. If this date is not held, the contract loses its validity. It protects you from waiting and waiting and waiting....and in the meantime exclude yourself from other potential customers. All my customers are initially excited, but they are also very commercially aware: exposure is only needed if a project still has to be sold. And then there are the architects: the more famous they are, the slower they deliver. And that is not meant negative: they also want to deliver a perfect job and since the VIZ market goes more photoreal they just do NOT want to hand out concept drawings...

**Da_elf** · 02-12-2005, 07:03 AM

always always alwatys get that downpayment. make it non-refundable and also if you dont have time to go get pieces of paper signed stick into your proposal that the downpayment is an agreement to the proposal (thereby making it a contract)

**jujubee** · 02-12-2005, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by trick

Actually, for court this does not hold. You should always include a last date in your contract, on which you should have received all the data you need for your work. If this date is not held, the contract loses its validity.

I disagree with that. In the US - a verbal agreement is just as valid as a signed one - the problem being is that it is harder to prove in a court of law.

You could try to write them a letter and bring them to small claims court, or if it's a larger fee hire an attorney to politely write them a letter. Chances are they would settle out of court by just paying half the total amount. Before taking this path and shooting yourself in the foot for future projects, I would do what Gijs has recommended.

From now on I would make a standard contract mandatory. This way, you also come off looking 'more professional.' It also holds that you have deadlines to meet and they should be required to get back to you with plans, changes, etc in an appropriate time-frame instead of dragging you along.

**travistlo** · 02-12-2005, 08:23 AM

Re: Client backs out of agreement!

Originally posted by rpc212

Hey everyone,

Just looking to get some ideas of how to handle a business issue.

I did some work for a client I have and they paid and all was good. They then said, "We want some more work done on another project send us a quote." I sent them a quote and they agreed to go ahead and sent me an email stated they wanted to go forward with the project and would get the CAD files to me ASAP.

They then sent an email saying they would need another 3 weeks before the CAD files would be ready and they would then send the files to me. So I wait 4 weeks contact them and they say they need more time and will contact me back as soon as they are ready with the CAD files.

I emailed them yesterday to find out when I will get the CAD files (4 weeks further on) and they emailed me back saying they no longer want the rendering and animation they agreed to have done because they have sold all the property for the building I was going to do the still visualization and an animation of.

What should I do?

Did you do any work for this new project? If not it shouldnt be a big deal?

**s0real** · 02-12-2005, 09:15 AM

Re: Client backs out of agreement!

Originally posted by travistlo

Did you do any work for this new project? If not it shouldnt be a big deal?

i think the point is that he had to turn down other work while waiting for the project files to come in...

i'd be careful about complaining to them - if they see you as being somebody who will make a fuss, even if it is in fact them who are in the wrong, it might make them think twice about putting work your way in the future or recommending you to other people...

just take it as a lesson and move on i guess!

**Syclone1** · 02-12-2005, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Gijs

Personally I would ask them if there is anything else you can do for them. But also mention the fact that you are disappointed because you refused other jobs because of it. Things like that happen. Besides, you haven't put any work into it yet. Just be open and show your frustation (politely)

I have to agree with Gijs on this one, if you havnt done any work on the project then by all means do politely let them know of your frustration but unless you have a signed contract taking them to court will cost you nothing but money, time and possibly damaging your reputation a little or alot. I allways have my contracts signed and a deposit before I do a job even with the clients Ive been workinng with for years. Im also currently working with my lawyer on a new contract due to some recent experiences Ive had with a, lets just say unethical client.

As for refusing jobs in anticipation of this one I would have to say DONT unless you have a signed contract and non-refundable deposit that way your not losing much if the project gets canned.

-dave

**Da_elf** · 02-12-2005, 09:32 AM

i agree whether work is done or not is irrelavant. other work could be put asside while waiting and money lost. this is why a non refundable downpayment is always good to save your ass. not only that but a time limit should be placed on how long you will wait before you concide the project a dead end before moving onto other clients. this is where contracts come in.

**Dynedain** · 02-12-2005, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by rpc212

Dynedain: I usually do get a signed contract and 50% deposit. However I thought I could trust these clients as they seemed in such a hurry and made such a fuss about getting all the information together.

Well, let this be a lesson then. Don't assume you can trust your clients. Things can happen that are out of their control as well. They have contracts with their clients to cover things, you should too. As for resolving this particular case, I don't think you will be able to get any compensation out of them for this, and they'll just go elsewhere if you sound whiney. If they ask for another job, make it crystal clear that you now work on a contract basis and will not start any work untill the contract and check are in your hands. Same policy for all your clients. You're actually lucky... you could have been burned much much worse. They could have given you stuff, had you start working, then take one of your in-progress renderings and never paid you a dime. Protect yourself.

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