Walkthrough Camera Timing and Paths

[jujubee]

I haven't had to do this - very rarely do I animate. So I was hoping someone could give me some tips and advice.

Does anyone have any tips/suggestions for creating a walkthrough path of an apartment? How do you setup the speed of the camera and follow paths smoothly around corners? Also, how do you go from a larger FOV (such as a living room) to a room thats the size of a bathroom?

[pshupe68]

Well - this may seem a little simple but it's the way I do it and it seems to work great for me. I've been doing this way since VIZ 3. Basically just add the camera and set-up howmany frames you want for a sequence. Click on the "auto key" button which used to be the animate button and it goes red as well as the frame around your viewport. This activates the "record" function. You change the frame to where you want your camera to stop or change direction or FOV and move the camera there. Keep doing this until your sequence is complete.

Things to setup and keep in mind are frame rate, I usually use custom 20 frames per second and sometimes can get away with 15. If you are unsure of how fast it will end up being just do the calculation. You are moving your camera so many feet over so many frames with so many frames per second. If you want walking speed about 4-5 miles/hr = 1.45ft/sec, 20 frames /sec - so every 30' has to be about 400 frames.
Same with the target and changing FOV.

Regards Peter.

[panthon]

Better renders from Vray, aka working in "cinema workfl

In addition to all said by pshupe68, don´t forget there´s a thing called edition.

You don´t have to show everything in a single shot. For some ugly reason, there´s a non-written rule in archpreviz which says u should show a house like a person would see it, thus simulating with the cam the movment of a person. That is not only wrong but also very unpleasant and confusing. Look at the movies, they have a shot language which works wonders when u need to show whatever u want to show. You shoot a wide angle shot, then a detail shot and assemble them together, you don´t ZOOOM in or travel in from absurd distances....That´s so 3dish or so 80ish...or both at the same time...Of course, u should create a cam for every room, not one for all...It will make things easier for u too!
I know some clients ask for this kind of walkthroughs, but imho, that´s the worst thing u could offer to them.
Let´s switch from the "crappy archpreviz workflow" to the "cool cinema workflow".

[joconnell]

One thing to do is definitely use nurbs curves for your camera path since they're infinitely smooth and thus it's really difficult for them to have kinks in them. Also another thing that may help in small amounts is to loosen up the camera a bit to make it look like someone shot it hand held - the camera might have a few errors in it. Say for example if you do a pan across a room, you might want to slightly overshoot the point you are panning to and then come back to it to correct - mainly because if you were filming something for real, the camera has weight in it and will carry through a little bit with inertia so you often slightly miss the target. Another good technique for this is to animate the path you want the camera to follow and then in your fcurve editor, use the draw curve tool to sketch over the fcurve by hand - admittedly you end up with a key on every frame but what it does quite nicely is adds a little bit of wobble and human error into the camera moves - of course depending on how lively you want them to look is up to you.

[pshupe68]

panthon is very correct. If you notice in movies or commercials they are always fading and panning and then fading again. I was assuming that to be done as well. I think that is why my way seems to be the simplest because you just do segments and put them all together in post with fades etc.

I have tried attaching the camera to a path as well and it seems to wokr O.K. but it's difficult to slow down and speed up and stop at certain areas. It just seems simpler to grab and move with animate button down.

Regards Peter.

[Dynedain]

Think of it this way. If someone was doing a documentary film on the building, would they go there with a camera, switch it on, and just start walking around leaving the camera continuously running for one long shot? Of course not. But that is what architects expect from 3D animations because they don't know any better.

Oh, and I wouldn't use paths. They are a nightmare to edit and adjust the timing on. It's much easier to just keyframe the camera and adjust curves instead.

[davision]

I would disagree that using the cinema style versus the straightforward walk through is necessarily preferable.

The trouble with cinema style editing is that you are often showing the impossible. People who are buying a house don't often wedge their head up in the highest possible corner of the rafters to view the entirety of their living room. A regular old-fashioned walk through shows the house as a real person would see it. Using a crazy wide angle lens, and odd camera positions might add some drama but it certainly doesn't create a true representation of the space.

That said, I am not totally opposed to a more artful style of editing, but suffice it to say, I think an ordinary walk through has it's place. The purposes and audiences of cinema and architectural visualization are very different, so there's no reason the editing style shouldn't be very different too.

[panthon]

Davision,

I think u are misunderstanding the meaning of cinema style i´m referring to. It´s all about language, internal rythm and edition, not camera positions. Of course, u can find very different styles in cinema...it´s not the same a cheesy jet li movie and a sam mendes one...
What i mean is u don´t need to use wacky points of view to show anything, u can be as elegant as u want, with slow camera moves, long tempos, classical music and stuff... But walkthorughs....why don´t you add a couple of rocket launchers and make a videogame? And don´t forget to add the sound from the steps...
Or even better, give the client a realtime application for them to move around...no need for a stylish artistic representation anymore!

I understand what u say, but i don´t think audiences are different. What they expect from a movie and an archpreviz is what is different. But that doesn´t lead us to walkthroughs! U still can show a house without spending the 40% of the time on the corridors...


Walkthroughs are to 3d what hollidays videos are to video cameras.

The other thing that bothers me is the overuse of crossfade in shots. I´ve found myself adding these footage suckas in every single shot just because otherwise " shots jumped in every cut " . Do u see crossfades in every cut in every commercial or movie on air?

I guess it will be difficult for a customer to have the house in their head no matter what u do with your video. If the aim is to create an accurate representation of space, there´s no substitute for the real thing. Lowering your language quality just for the sake of space true understanding is, imho, a mistake. U´ll sell better a nice presented house than a boring walkthrough-driven one.

But don´t take me too seriously. My background is at filmmaking, so I can´t stand walkthroughs, except when they are on the internet and refer to games...uhmm some games are soooo illogical

[percydaman]

I thought I would jump in with my two cents. I still need alot of work myself and camera animating, though I am getting better.

Since we're talking about arch vis, I'll expound on that. I know some of you film grads, dont like the boring animated walkthrough, but I haven't found many clients that wanted their retirement home turned into a Richard Bruckheimer flick. They want time to look at all the spaces, amenities, etc etc.

Personally, I use about 30% pure animation, and the rest is panned stills, and 360 vrs. The vast majority of arch vis clients dont know a lick about filmmaking, 3d animation, or whatever, and they never notice that something isn't completely animated. What it does for me though, is cut down on rendertime immensely and give me more time to make the space what the client is going to like to see.

If your looking for ideas on how to animate your archvis scene, your probably not going to want to watch movies, and fast paced commercials for your inspiration. Its just going to get you into trouble. If you find the rare client, that wants something flashy, by all means, lose the crossfades, the slow pans, and so on. Relish this rare opportunity, and be prepared to go back to boring when its completed.

[jow]

Couple of questions i'd like to ask,a bit basic stuff really but here goes;
Ive messed around with walkthroughs before but nothing serious but
i feel its time to get my head round it

Is 20 fps a good all round amount for archviz? is this what most of you guys use?,or should i be using 25fps(PAL)

What is the best quality/most popular codec to use for viewing on PC?

@Percy,is the panning of stills something that can be done with in max?
its an effective way of showing a hires still.

cheers guys,and sorry for hijacking...

[percydaman]

Couple of questions i'd like to ask,a bit basic stuff really but here goes;
Ive messed around with walkthroughs before but nothing serious but
i feel its time to get my head round it

Is 20 fps a good all round amount for archviz? is this what most of you guys use?,or should i be using 25fps(PAL)

What is the best quality/most popular codec to use for viewing on PC?

@Percy,is the panning of stills something that can be done with in max?
its an effective way of showing a hires still.

cheers guys,and sorry for hijacking...

sure the panning can be done in max, and for the 360 vr, most definitely should since your still effectively animating camera in 3d space. The 2d still pans we can do in out comp software (digital fusion) or our editing software (sony vegas) I suppose it doesn't really matter which that I can see.

[flipside]

I'll continue the hijacking, since this is a general thread about animations.

How do you guys overcome the 4GB file limit when working with video? If you render a lot of frames, let's say 10.000, and then make an uncompressed avi from it, and you have 5 of these to make a full anim from it. All the seperate avi's are larger than 4GB, and because of that the editing software won't read it correctly.

Or if editing works on for example 5*2.5 GB avi's, and you want to write out the full edited animation that will be 12.5GB! I will never be able to open this file to compress it to divx for example.

Just wondering how a typical workflow is like if your animations are longer than 10 minutes on a decent resolution.

[jow]

So percy, i guess its just a case of panning a cam over say a plane or something that has got the image applyed to it,and then rendering out whith no AA or filter and bingo!!

How do you go about doing the 360 vr thingy?

forget last question about 360vr,done a search and found the answer

cheers...

[Dynedain]

I'll continue the hijacking, since this is a general thread about animations.

How do you guys overcome the 4GB file limit when working with video? If you render a lot of frames, let's say 10.000, and then make an uncompressed avi from it, and you have 5 of these to make a full anim from it. All the seperate avi's are larger than 4GB, and because of that the editing software won't read it correctly.

Or if editing works on for example 5*2.5 GB avi's, and you want to write out the full edited animation that will be 12.5GB! I will never be able to open this file to compress it to divx for example.

Just wondering how a typical workflow is like if your animations are longer than 10 minutes on a decent resolution.

You work with a sequence of targa files instead. And in Film/Broadcast, you rarely have clips longer than a coupld of seconds anyways. Another benefit to the Cinema workflow.

[panthon]

Yeah, cinema workflow makes your life easier too!
With the new, revamped cinema workflow u´ll have more time to spend with your family and kids, your girlfriend, or maybe those clubber friends of you!

Great discounts on render times!

Switch now, u won´t regret!

Cinema workflow. Stuff that matters.