Video/Animation Compression

[jujubee]

I'm rendering out an animation to video for the first time and am wondering what is the best compression method.

Basically, what I gathered I need to do is:

1) Render out to individual frames. I am using DV settings (720x486?) at 30 FPS for a 1 minute video.
2) Composite the frames together in a program such as Max, After Effects, or even Windows Movie Maker.
3) Save the animation back out - preferably in a compressed format.

So, my questions (in general) are:

1) which file format works best that's good quality yet retains a good file size? Jpegs, pngs?
2) what program would you use to composite these frames?
3) what formats (codecs, etc.) would you save out to for:
a) regular video
b) web video (possibly streaming)

Thanks for any suggestions.

[trick]

These are just my preferences:

1. Always uncompressed TGA/TIF (to prevent accumulated artifacts)
2. AfterFX, Digital Fusion
3. Save out as uncompressed AVI (again to prevent accumulated artifacts)
a. convert to MPEG2 with Sorenson Squeeze Compression Suite 4.2 (Mainconcept codec)
b. convert to QT or ON2vp6 Pro for flash video also with SSCS 4.2

[mike.edel]

png is fine for sequences
tif/tga, too
no jpeg if you intend to compress the movie later on (re-compression = very bad idea)

if you just want to compress your frame sequence to avi, you can use virtualdub (good free open source tool) - but only with bmp and tga sequences
it has basic filters (resizing, f.e.) and can mix in external audio
www.virtualdub.org

if you want to use mp3 audio you need nandub (a modification of vdub)
http://ndub.sourceforge.net/
in both tools, you always have the option to just copy the video stream (direct stream copy) and add audio from external files
so you can first compress the video and later mix in the audio part which was compressed in a seperate step
(i can recommend the lame mp3 encoder for this http://lame.sourceforge.net)
that way you don't have to recompress

otherwise, save uncompressed video from your editing application and compress in a seperate step
alternatively you can use lossless compression codecs to save space
lossless compression codecs:
http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley...g/huffyuv.html
there are others (i already posted on this some time ago)

now about recommended codecs for final compression:

1. AVI
i'd recommend Xvid (open source mpeg4 codec with better quality than divx) version 1.1 is pretty stable and has myriads of options
http://www.koepi.org/xvid.shtml
there also are versions for mac/linux/*bsd/BeOS/solaris

if you have a little more time and a bitrate limit try 2-pass compression:
in the first pass it will analyze your video for parts which need more data rate and adjust the variable bitrate in the second pass accordingly

divx needs to be licensed for commercial use - expensive
haven't bothered to try other codecs so far as most tend to be very expensive for commercial use and xvid worked fine for me
if you want more info on different avi codecs:
http://www.doom9.org/codec-comparisons.htm
www.doom9.org is a good site for info anyway

windows media is nice, if you are only targeting current windows computers (codecs may already be installed)
has a very good dedicated tool for compression
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...a/default.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...r/default.aspx
if you have to install codecs:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...es/codecs.aspx

2. MOV (quicktime)
it's been a long time since i used quicktime but the sorenson codecs still have a very good reputation
no current experience though

3. Other
if you want clients to be able to view the movie without installing codecs or players you can try bink:
http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm
it has its own compression format and has players for most system architectures (pc, mac, xbox, ps2)
it can compile the compressed movie into an windows executable file that has all the needed components for playback integrated
free of charge for win/mac/linux but it displays a small logo on exit of the player

4. regular video
depends on what kind of video:
HDTV (several sub-standards availlable), NTSC Tape, NTSC Mpeg2 (dvd), PAL Tape, Pal DVD

[instinct]

For us mainly depends on the target audience. If Windows only is okay then i really like WMV for HD stuff...I recently really started to love Sorenson V3 Pro (Integrated in Sorenson Squeeze...it´s pretty impressive an a LOT LOT LOT BETTER then QT´s own encoder).

It gives very low Filesizes with very good quality. Was astound when we did some research recently.

E.G. was a Commercial done by our Shanghai department. 15 seconds at full pal resolution were squeezed down to 890kb while still retaining full pal FPS and res and beeing of reasonable quality with sharp typo even.

Greetings,
Thorsten

[jujubee]

Wow guys. Thanks for the overwhelming responses. There's alot to read. This thread is definitely worth bookmarking.

I'll experiment as my project progesses - again, I really appreciate those tips. It sounds like Sorenson Squeeze is the software to have. Sorenson used to make good old Media Cleaner which was bought out by Discreet not too long ago. Is Squeeze a "new and improved" version of this?

*update* I just downloaded a trial version - Instinct mentioned he used the SV3 codec - what other settings did you have applied?

[mike.edel]

media cleaner pro used to be a product of terran interactive - and they had the exclusive license to include the sorenson pro codec

terran was bought by media100 and media cleaner got sold to discreet

so there is a connection between sorenson and discreet (i'll never get used to "autodesk media & entertainment solutions" )

personally, i don't like quicktime too much, it just feels sluggisch and overloaded on a pc
i tend to use media player classic a lot (part of the guliverkli open source project and a very powerful, lightweight, non-install player)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli
http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=84358
(currently there are no binaries for the latest version, just pick 6.4.8.6)
it even has the option to use installed real media codecs in order to get around the real player (which is even worse than QT in my opinion)

[trick]

Well the biggest thing for me in Squeeze:

I always deliver a DVD with all kinds of different formats (both in resolution and/or file size/quality), so clients and developers only have to drag and drop these files for their application. This is just to prevent them from using less professional codecs which result in low-quality video. Since Squeeze supports very intelligent batch rendering you simply use your uncompressed AVI as base input and let Squeeze do the rest over night. Mostly I use 2 different uncompressed AVI's as base: one for all the videofiles (flv, mov, avi, mpeg1) and one which has specific colorcorrection and a 0.5 pixel vertical motion blur for the mpeg2 file which is used for the PAL-DVD; The blur is to reduce flickering resulting from thin horizontal lines.

It's a good thing to have a dedicated RAID0 array with 4 SCSI320 15K Seagate Cheetahs: this way you can almost work realtime uncompressed. And if that's too expensive, just use 2 SATA 10K HD's in RAID0. If you already have (at least) a dual proc. system, make sure you put the array in an external box: they tend to get hot and use more energy then your system; since you only use the array for videoediting it extends their live alot

[instinct]

I simply used the 512kb Stream preset and tweaked the settings...i used Quality based VBR, set the quality to maximum and controlled file-size via the limit datarate option...works great...i should create presets i know....but am a lazy bum :P

Thorsten

[glyph]

for completeness:
if you want to save your alpha in the file: targa or png for stills or sequences

for movies : quicktime animation codec at 100% quality and "millions+" colours is lossless with alpha, (file size will be around 10% less than a sequence of tgas)

correct me if I've missed anything

has Sorenson squeeze interface got any better? Old one sucked big time

[instinct]

I guess the UI is a matter of taste....but yes it sucks as it´s hard to understand at first :P

[trick]

...has Sorenson squeeze interface got any better? Old one sucked big time

It's nothing revolutionary but to say **** big time ? It simply does the job, nothing more, nothing less. They should spend ALL their time developing codecs that squeeze video files as small/good as possible. Even if that would mean I had to use commandline editing.

[glyph]

Hey tricky have to disagree with you there - you mean you'd be happy to drive a car with a tiller to steer by, two hand levers for operating clutch and gears? Inefficient?

Good software is all about usability and interface is key to that.
Squeeze hides everything under inscrutable button icons, with more options hidden further down.
To compress a second file it opens a new instance of itself so you have to reapply settings, it doesn't by default work to the input frame size, it defaults to 360 x240, it doesnt get the frame rate from the input movie.. the crop/scale tool is weird, its far better to give it pre-cropped /scaled material

so all that slows it down in productivity, MediaCleaner was more repeatable for extensive compression testing.
file size is Squeeze's aim and it does that very well but .. the usability interface is still lousy

Vray thank god doesnt use silly little icons, has plain rollout panes and is reasonably predictable in where things are located, it won't win an interface award but its style (technical, plain) suits the requirements - it doesn't get in the way

phew, rant over

[trick]

Hey tricky have to disagree with you there - you mean you'd be happy to drive a car with a tiller to steer by, two hand levers for operating clutch and gears? Inefficient?...

I only start it once a day and that won't cost me more then 5 minutes. The other almost 24 hours it drives by itself: what more do you want in a car ?

Seriously: if compression was my profession (hmm, cute) I probably would search for something better. But mostly, I'm in and out of this program in a blink.

[DaForce]

i am a big fan of the old virtualdubmod and xvid combo! the newest xvid codec by koepi has multiprocessor support. and on my x2 was encoding a dvd stream at 97fps!! now thats some fast shit!
anyway thats my 2 cents

also forgive me if this looks like crap as i am writing it via my mobile phone as i have on internet access because i am interstate for my birthday

[mike.edel]

i am a big fan of the old virtualdubmod and xvid combo! the newest xvid codec by koepi has multiprocessor support. and on my x2 was encoding a dvd stream at 97fps!! now thats some fast shit!
anyway thats my 2 cents

also forgive me if this looks like crap as i am writing it via my mobile phone as i have on internet access because i am interstate for my birthday

vray on the road
now all ya need is this vray cellular renderfarm