boot camp?

[alkis]

hi everyone
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/
i know its a bit of a longshot but has anyone tried this ?
do you think that max and vray could potentially work fine in a setup like that?
its extremely intriguing
it would definetely mean that i would switch on to macs forever as the only reason i stay with pc s is max
regards
alkis

[RErender]

There are no more "Macs" there are only "PC's " But if you like OSX and overpaying for hardware the switch will be fine.

[Dynedain]

It should work just fine. It allows Windows to boot normally on the new Intel Macs (which are basically just normal PCs with the BIOS replaced by EFI).

[jujubee]

There were attempts to port OSX under Windows - some even got it to boot successfully with some hardware incompatibilities. Does anyone know what the status is of these attempts?

I'm sure Bill Gates is loving this...

[Dynedain]

Well, booting OSX on a generic PC is a violation of the OSC license, booting Windows on an Apple machine is not though.

[Da_elf]

why would anyone want to work on a mac? intel sucks compaired to amd and mac osx has always been so user friendly that its actually slower and more bogged down that windows. sure people talk about how bad windows is but its been ages since i got the BSOD. infact last BSOD i had was back when i was on win2k

[jujubee]

OSC license? I'm sure it's violating something. But I should be able to throw OSX CD in the microwave if I wanted to...

Regardless of legality, people have been doing it and I've seen sites dedicated to this a while back. Why would anyone want to run a Mac? Several reasons:

1) Working well with others. A lot of older designers, especially in publishing still work on Macintoshes. At the past 10+ publishing houses I contracted with, ALL of them used Macs.

2) Fonts. Windows does not hold a candle to Macintosh font control, management, and libraries. It's the one thing I wish Windows could handle. Even with OpenType, Windows still misses important features such as Ligatures, proper kerning, and special character simplicity to name a few.

3) Testing websites. Unfortunately, people use Macintoshes and this also ties-in with all of the above.

4) Simplicity. OSX is probably easier to use for the average person to grasp. I don't see how some of their machines are 'bogged down.' PS, Illustrator, Quark, and InDesign ran plenty fast for me.

[ShaunDon]

If I may add Juju, my top reason right now for wanting to dabble in OSX... Windows XP runs like an absolute pig these days. I've setup or formatted four machines in the past two months, and each time they're lightning fast wth a clean install, then after two service packs and +/- 163 security patches (there's a ton of 'em) are applied, the boot time triples and everything just drags. And at a reported 8gb install, I really don't expect Windows Vista to save us, and it's years away anyway.

Course, none of this matters since you still have to install XP on the Mac. In the end, thanks go to Autodesk for locking us CAD/max users into Microsoft operating systems.

Shaun

[Da_elf]

you actually service pack your windows?
well seems to me that in film production even those using macs are probably using the mac on linux and not mac os. and back when i was searching for a good web host i dont remember one single place offering server space on a mac. ive seen pc's with the options of windows or linux.
i do agree though. compatibility is a factor. however more and more printing companies are switching to pc. i believe that most graphics agencies use mac because mac sells to the schools dirt cheap so the kids come out knowing mac and usually are brain washed into thinking macs are better than pc's for performance. thank goodness in the school i teach all of my students who use the macs in the class room will go home and continue on their pc's since they all hate mac.

[mike.edel]

OSC license? I'm sure it's violating something. But I should be able to throw OSX CD in the microwave if I wanted to...

Regardless of legality, people have been doing it and I've seen sites dedicated to this a while back. Why would anyone want to run a Mac? Several reasons:

1) Working well with others. A lot of older designers, especially in publishing still work on Macintoshes. At the past 10+ publishing houses I contracted with, ALL of them used Macs.

2) Fonts. Windows does not hold a candle to Macintosh font control, management, and libraries. It's the one thing I wish Windows could handle. Even with OpenType, Windows still misses important features such as Ligatures, proper kerning, and special character simplicity to name a few.

3) Testing websites. Unfortunately, people use Macintoshes and this also ties-in with all of the above.

4) Simplicity. OSX is probably easier to use for the average person to grasp. I don't see how some of their machines are 'bogged down.' PS, Illustrator, Quark, and InDesign ran plenty fast for me.

my take on your points...of course influenced by opinion

1) part of this are pure refusal and historical reasons - the times when design and dtp software came out on the mac first (and even not at all on the pc) are long gone
color proofing is no issue on the pc (huge turnoff for print people in the early days)
2) almost all fonts on the mac use open type by now, too - those also run on the pc
whether the advanced features (ligatures etc) get used mainly depends on the host applicaton - no problem if you use things like indesign on the pc
http://studio.adobe.com/us/type/main...type/main#apps

other than that - you can always get adobe type manager deluxe on the pc for type 1 fonts - works as well as it does on the mac

3)last numbers i read (that was before osX) there were about 2-5% mac users on normal webservers - of course this depends on the site that collected the statistics (i'd expect the apple.com site to have higher percentages)
but of course you are right - testing is a very valid reason (for a few people at least)
btw: would osX run on VMware? could be an easier alternative (more flexible too)
4) cant say anything about osX - i had to use os9 and i really hated it compared to winNT or 2000
i really cant count the number of times photoshop crashed while printing a document in the background

regarding running the intel version of osX on "normal" pcs: afaik there are only very few systems that are supported (lack of drivers inside the osx developer previews)
basicly the hardware has to be very similar to the intel mac developer machines osX was supposed to run on

mike

[DaForce]

ShaunDon:


I certainly dont see those problems. I have installed alot of XP Sp2 machines recently. All updated, the works.
My home machine still boots up hell quick. There are alot of things that can affect XP boot time.. funnily enough something simple like only have 1 device on your primary IDE channel can slow things down.. fill it up and it boot mega quick.. strange hey

I certainly wouldnt call it a pig, my machine is still as snappy and responsive as the day I installed it, obviously its a little slower to get into windows (5seconds slower maybe) because of the added system tray icons from various programs that are installed but still... no complaints here.

I personally cant stand OSX, just doesnt click with me. ALOT of stupid shit in there IMO

oh and the reason alot of these "publishing houses" are using macs is either for their design asthetics, or because they have used macs for ages at one point i think they might have been better for media work. But now days... any program that is cross platform will almost without a doubt run faster and better on a PC. With the except or the fonts deal listed above and mabye something like final cut pro (but there are some great video programs for pc as well - they just havnt been glorified by apples marketing team ).. i cant see any specific reason to use a mac over pc in a "puiblishing house"
oh and im sick of hearing "but my mac makes me feel more creative"

[jujubee]

i cant see any specific reason to use a mac over pc in a "puiblishing house"

Most people don't deal with fonts on a regular basis. To make things worse, publishing people are very reluctant adopters of new technology, software, and font formats. It's probably from their previous experience with pre OS9 software. I actually know people still running Photoshop 4 cause theyre either too cheap or afraid to change. Also, most of these people don't know the first thing about PCs and are afraid to learn.

the reason alot of these "publishing houses" are using macs is either for their design asthetics, or because they have used macs for ages at one point

Da_Elf has a point. Apple has a habit of letting schools use their systems at a heavily discounted rates. Students would leave school and go out and purchase Macs because this is what they were used to. I saw this happen all the time at the Berkley College of Music when I worked there.

Another huge reason why people used Macs is that QuarkXpress was the leader in production tools for the longest time and it was only available on this platform. Oh and Avid Editing (which was awesome I must add) was Mac-based.

Now for all the reasons NOT to use a Mac...

[DaForce]

Now for all the reasons NOT to use a Mac...

Dont....get....me.....started...

There a whole thread in that alone...

[arobbert]

If I may add Juju, my top reason right now for wanting to dabble in OSX... Windows XP runs like an absolute pig these days. I've setup or formatted four machines in the past two months, and each time they're lightning fast wth a clean install, then after two service packs and +/- 163 security patches (there's a ton of 'em) are applied, the boot time triples and everything just drags. And at a reported 8gb install, I really don't expect Windows Vista to save us, and it's years away anyway.

Course, none of this matters since you still have to install XP on the Mac. In the end, thanks go to Autodesk for locking us CAD/max users into Microsoft operating systems.

Shaun

last week I ran "automatic" upgrade on XP Pro with SP1. I always avoided doing this and my worst fears became reality. The machine installed the "upgrades" and refused to boot. I had to re-install the OS and have been in hell ever since. I lost countless hours installing software , recovering passwords and configuring.

[jujubee]

Wow. That sucks. Out of curiousity, did you try doing safe-mode and rolling back your system?