workstation buildup + questions

[Guest]

Hello guys,

The time has come that i have to look for a new workstation since my computer is now 2,5 years old im getting behind with others faster than i can speak the word "cake".

I have been researching and visited some shops but they always lack the knowledge of what to buy for pure 3d usage. Also there are the several workstation providers such ass "Boxx" and "Dell" but i havent got any experience with service with both of them.

First off... some questions before i can even begin to try build a pc:

- which way should one go with choosing 32bits or 64bits systems?

- What are the adventages of both of them?

- When choosing for either one of the mentioned options with matching operating systems and software (all 64 or 32 bits), wil the be compatible with eachother? Ive heard that working with both systems next to eachother can deliver some problems, so if anybody knows of those problems please clear this up.

-Has anybody got any experience working with windows vista in combination with 3dmax 9 and vray? Is it worth moving on to vista or staying with xp expecially when other "older" pc's in the network would use xp?

- do you guys have any experience on working with vista and external hardware such as wacom tablets in regard with drivers? Ive heard vista and especially 64bits version systems have a hard time with finding and using drivers?

Some hardware questions:

- what processor type would you go for? duo core, quad core or even dual duo etc. (looking for best performance with overall good price)

- is the video card with dx10 going to be a must? or what other ideas have you got on this topic?

Now il state my ideas about a system.... I think my price limit would be around 2000,- euros but even less would be nice. I kinda like the idea of more(probably two with a switchbox for one screen) ok/good pc's instead of one supurbe extreme expensive machine.

Since my old system is an amd athlon 3500+ 64bits system wich is running xp 32bits i think any upgrade to duo cores or even quad cores is going to be an insane improvement.

i just have to get some info and especially some answers on what to do with 32 or 64 bits systems.

If any of you have any ideas of what to get and whats best i would appreciate the help

With kind regards,

Niels Sinke

[Blitterswitch]

Hi Nelis,

In terms of 32 v 64 bit in my small level of experiance there is no performance to be gained from 64 bit unless you are rendering scenes which are taking you past 3gb memory. All 64 bit allows is you to access more physical ram - it does not magically make your computer faster.
If you have more than 3gb in your machine it is probably better to go for either xp 64 bit or vista 64 bit.

The only problem with xp 64bit is the lack of driver support. Vista 64 bit will be easier to find drivers for because Microsoft has made all driver vendors supply both 32 and 64 bit versions in order to have them 'certfied'.
Note that this will only benefit you if you are using fairly new hardware, if you have a lot of old hardware then I think you will have to do some level of research first and you may be safer going with xp 32bit with a /3gb switch.

I currently have Vista 64bit on my main workstation and on all of my rendernodes and it runs fine, there are a few little niggles which will get ironed out eventually, but if you install the latest service pack for 3ds max 9 you shouldn't have too many problems. I also have vista 32bit installed on my laptop and it also seems to have no problems.

It would seem that the best value for money processors at this current time are the quad core 2 duos. They are very overclockable and are very very fast.

I wouldn't get too carried away with the whole directx10 thing, so far as I understand, the top end dx9 cards are as fast if not faster than the mid to low end dx10 and they are cheaper. I have an ATI x1950pro in my main workstation and it is very quick. In the laptop I have a nVidia 7900gs which is about as quick also.

[DaForce]

I would suggest you wait.. if you can.. until late july. Intel is slash 50% of its process prices. So you will be able to get the lower end quad core for around $299 USD I believe. Thats the Q6600.

For best performance you cant go past dual quad core xeons.
Basically the more cores you get the faster it will be.

Have a look on the benchmark thread, I posted a excel spreadsheet of all the benchmark results and their times. You will be able to see whats fastest and then find out prices for yourself and know what to get.

[Adam H. Stewart]

Me too

I am in the same boat - I just got a new machine - well a year go, but it was never really happy with me and it going back to the maker for good this time.

My last machine was from Bell - labs - I think I got a lemon but the company overall seems pretty good. My machine before that was a boxxtech, which served me well until it caught fire.

Where does anybody stand in terms of building a machine from scratch or going with something like boxx, Dell, hp ect.

Thanks for the excel spreadsheet DaForce I'll be putting it to good news.

[DaForce]

I always build mine from scratch. That way you know what goes into it.
Buying pre-built machines, is good if you need like 10 or more. And often with bulk purchases they can be as cheap as if you had made it yourself. But generally not as you often pay alot for support..etc..

I have built my last 3 machines myself and about to build up a new one in hte next couple of months. For me.. I wouldnt have it any other way.

I would suggest if you can then do it. But know that depending on your skills you may end up with a machine that aint all it could be or just doesnt go. So as long as your fairly confident you should be set.

Thanks, I have been meaning to update it with prices etc.. which i might do in the next few days.
However do take notice that intel is dropping its current desktop cpu prices by about 50% at the end of july. So it might pay to wait

[Guest]

yeah i heard intel was going to drop prices but then again... wont there be some other hightech technology available with the same high prices?? its always going to be like that.

I like the idea of having to pay less for a dual core but i think i realy have to upgrade soon since my computer just isnt working on the render part... everywhere i go i hear people with duo cores, quad cores and even dual quad cores... having like 16 buckets on screen while im rendering with 1 bucket.. its just insane

here are some specs what ive build up right now at a local store:

• Asus P5W DH Deluxe
• Intel® 975X, Socket 775, 1066 MHz, 2x PCIe x16
• € 175,-

• Western Digital Caviar RE
• 320 GB, 8,9 / 16 / 7200, Serial ATA/300
• € 89,-

• Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
• 775, 24 dB(A), 77 m³/h, tot 4400 MHz
• € 19,-

• Zalman ZM500-HP
• 500 Watt, ATX 2.03, ATX12V 2.x, EPS, 7 x, 6 x
• € 89,-

• Antec Performance One P182
• 4 x, 6 x, ATX
• € 129,-

• Microsoft Windows XP Pro
• Engels, 1 Licentie, CD-ROM
• € 149,-

• Alternate 2 jaar on-site garantie
• € 39,-

• Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q6600
• 2400 MHz, 8192 kB, 1066 MHz, Kentsfield
• € 539,-

• Asus DRW-1814BLT
• 18/8x, 8/-x(DL) speed, , 16/48x speed, Serial ATA/150
• € 45,-

• Asus EN8800GTS/HTDP
• 640 MB, GeForce 8800 GTS, PCIe x16, 320 bit
• € 369,-

• G.E.I.L. 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit
• 4096 MB, 2 stuk(s), PC2 6400, CL5 5-5-15
• € 289,-


what do you guys think, should i go for less process power like the duo core instead of quadcore and mabey try to buy even two machines wich would be upgradable to quad once the prices drop?

any ideas would be welcome

thanks

Niels

[DaForce]

Well I just bought a similar rig. See here
http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpB...ic.php?t=19603

But I just went for a E6420 for the time being til the price drop where I will buy a quad.
I will however be overclocking to about 3.6ghz on the E6420, and maybe similar on the quad. Should be pretty quick.

If your going for 4GB you may want to get XP64 as well, as Windows XP doesnt handle more than 2GB per process without the /3GB switch.. FYI

Sure its no dual quad setup but still.....

[Adam H. Stewart]

Upgrading in July

This thread couldn't be more timely for me.

I am coming around to the idea of building my own machine - famous last words - my problem is my current computer ( home machine, I still have my boxxtech in work) needs to go away next week so I need a new rig soon.

If I build something with a cheaper processor, how easy will it be to upgrade when the price drops ? with this in mind single proc would make more sense ?

I was talking to my bro and he suggested putting the old processor to work in some sort of rendernode made out of one of those cute blocky cases and controlling it with VNC.

The idea of just buying all these parts and creating a frankenstein is both exciting and terrifying - maybe I'll create a real monster that will suck all my cash and time and won't render a frame


Thanks as always for your help.

[Blitterswitch]

Well to be honest I have been building my pcs and other peoples since I was about 11 and it has never been easier to build a pc. To me the process of building a pc is a very simple and quick process and the longest time is the initial research of what kit to buy. I can understand that if the process is new to you then could seem initially quite overbaring, but with some reading and some patience you should find it a breeze.
If you buy either amd or intel you are fairly safe as far as upgrading to quad processors. To my understanding most am2 socket motherboards will support the new phenom processor with a simple bios update even though the chips are made for the new am2+ socket.
I am gonna buy 4x new amd quads when they come out to replace my current x2s - dependant on the cost obviously.
Best value for money right now are the c2d quads but as others have said in other threads you are really best waiting because their prices are set to plummit within weeks.

[DaForce]

Adam, its pretty easy. Just as long as you use abit of common sense you will be fine

[MoonDoggie]

I built a rig similar to yours, my home machine is a

P5W Delux mobo
core2duo e6600 oced to 3.0ghz
radeon x1950xtx video card
Vista 32bit

I do not like vista at all and am reverting back to xp

I love my machine and my specs for my work at home (ZBrush, Max, Vray, mostly Gaming), but if you want a real beast pure 3d machine, then quad cores will be the way to go with xp64.

just my .02

[Adam H. Stewart]

I'll give it a shot

I think I'm going to give it a shot - why not, with my other computers - like the one in work, I end up doing most of the trouble shooting myself anyway.
I'll be doing research over the weekend and will have plenty of dumb questions for your well balanced noggins.

Thanks as always.

[DaForce]

All my gear arrived today, so wil be putting it together in the next day or so.
And providing pictures etc in my thread.
The heatsink is massive, larger than a HDD standing on its end.. much larger.

[meanadam]

Wait for the price drop.

Yes - 8 cores will probably be out around the end of the year, but the difference between quad-core and dual-core is night and day. The dual cores we bought 6 months previous are now almost "too much trouble" to turn on.

Build it yourself. It takes longer to configure Max + Vray than it does to assemble the computer.

[Guest]

I have decided to stay with windows xp 32bit for just a while longer.

Since some people say vista and xp wont be optimal working together and xp 64bits has a really hard time with driver support i think i wil go for tha safe bet.

Instead im gonna put 4gb ram (i dont think i wil have to upgrade this to 8gb soon since if you use 8gb your doing something wrong or youve got such an insane project it doesnt matter anymore) in there so the possibility to upgrade to vista 64bit is there when the time arises to go vista all out.

Here is the rig the guys at dimension have put together with me:

As you can see there should be an extra 550 euros for an "Intel quad core Q6600"


What do you guys think. Btw should i go for this huge video card or take the mid range card (EN8800GTS) since this rig wil also kinda be used for gaming occasionally.

also what do you think about the whole 32 or 64bits story

Thanks in advance

Niels Sinke