Specialised 3D architectural studios dying out

[Morne]

Hi all fellow MAX and Vray users.

I come here today with a sad heart and a mind running wild to find ideas of how to stay profitable in the 3D architectural and interior design field. I find it more and more difficult to get new clients and holding on to old ones are getting harder and harder by the day. A few years ago this was much easier.

Now Autodesk and others are almost taking the food out of my mouth. I mean AutoCAD as their flagship product is just getting better and better. A few versions back they introduced mental ray into the thing. Granted most older Architectural and interior designers have been working in AutoCAD for years and are blissfully unaware of the powerfull new features you get with it. It is only time untill they discover it though and then I'm toast (or will I be a hidden line or a demolished wall).

Don't even get me started on Revit. Yes great program, great speed, CRAPPY renders! If I phone one more place to try and get work and they tell me they dont need spesialised 3D services since they have this "photorealistic" program that is so great and fast called Revit, I think I'll I'll I'll ok I dont know what I'll do but I wont be happy - AGAIN. Try and explain to them that REVIT's rendering does not even come close to MAX and that you would like to email them stuff or come see them to show the difference, Well better stick your hand in a pot of boling water as that is less frustrating.

And now you can not even use that argument anymore since I hear rumors of mental ray being included in the NEW Revit, and also I saw a mention of a VRAY plugin for Revit being developed! I mean come on people am I the only one going nuts here or what? Not to mention ADT or AutoCAD Architecture as it is known now days.

How will we survive and put food on our plates and look after our families if your business is being made obsolute by programs that let you "just press a button". I mean if you are not full time employed by an actual Architectural firm or Interior Design studio, how can you survive as a professional 3D Architectural Visualizing company?

In the long term I see myself having less and less architectural clients as they do everything inhouse more and more. So either work full time for somebody or get into another 3D field like gaming or FX or something. I so wished the other day I was as good as Richard and the guys over at Hatch studios with that non Architectural stuff they do. It seems I'll have to sharpen my non architectural 3D skills in order to surive. Jip, its a tough and dirty world out there!

All comments, crits (and tutorials) welcome!
(Sorry for rambling on, just get frustrated sometimes)

Kind Regards,
Morne

[jonahhawk]

I don't know what to tell you to make you feel better... It is a competitive market. There are SOOOOO many ArchViz people out there, all over the world. It's not just the in house issue. All I can suggest is either diverify your portfolio and branch out into other fields or be an in house person.

I used to freelance but now work in house at a large firm. Maybe I have less freedom but there are a lot of benefits to working here:

We have great equipment, 30" monitors and get new top end workstations every three years.
We have a huge render farm. There are over 400 employees and we are slowly pulling more and more of their workstations into our farm. On a good day there are over 100 machines on the farm.

I have health care (if you live in the US, this is a big deal)

I get paid vacation, sick days and paid holidays.

I work with a great group of guys and we all learn from each other and push each other to do better and better work.

If all you do is Arch Vis, then pick your favorite firm and solicit a job. Invent a 3D department for them and sell them on the advantages of having you in house instead of having their designers or production people tied up with the complexities of rendering and animation.

Also, eventually they and/or their clients will want higher and higher quality renderings, better trees and animated people. Revit won't satisfy them and they will have to specialize or outsource.

good luck. don't give up.

jonah

[Kyle_Grace]

It's inevitable that working in '3D' will become easier as technology/software progresses, which tends to mean that a lot of architects are doing their own 3D design development in programs such as Revit, Rhino, Sketch up etc. Rendering, materialising, lighting etc are also becoming easier. To be honest I hate doing that kind of work and would rather focus on high quality imagery and animations.

I think that our skills should really go beyond just being able to use 3D Studio Max or V-ray. Creating professional architectural imagery draws upon many fields, just because a monkey can use a piece of 3D software doesn't mean that monkey can create good images.

Maybe there's similarities between us and web-design? A few years ago anyone who could use dream weaver or similar went around calling themselves a "web designer" . As the industry became saturated it seemed to me that you had to work hard and keep up to date with things in order to stay employed.

[lukx]

I should listen to my father when he told me to be a cop There is work for them all the time

[Infrared digital]

There will always be a market for good 3D imagery and animations - its a matter of keeping your skills better than your competitors, providing a good service and completing work on time.

I am not sure where you are based but your local market may not require much hi res 3d imagery - you might have to relocate or as suggested, convince an architectural firm to develop an inhouse 3D department.

good luck

[Morne]

It's inevitable that working in '3D' will become easier as technology/software progresses, which tends to mean that a lot of architects are doing their own 3D design development in programs such as Revit, Rhino, Sketch up etc. Rendering, materialising, lighting etc are also becoming easier. To be honest I hate doing that kind of work and would rather focus on high quality imagery and animations.

I think that our skills should really go beyond just being able to use 3D Studio Max or V-ray. Creating professional architectural imagery draws upon many fields, just because a monkey can use a piece of 3D software doesn't mean that monkey can create good images.

Maybe there's similarities between us and web-design? A few years ago anyone who could use dream weaver or similar went around calling themselves a "web designer" . As the industry became saturated it seemed to me that you had to work hard and keep up to date with things in order to stay employed.

I think you missing the point I'm making. I hear what you say and fully understand it. The problems is clients that get new software and suddenly they can do "proffesional work" themselves and they think they dont need you anymore. Just try and explain to them about composition and other technical rendering stuff and they dont care because they did a quick 1 week overall course on Revit and now they think they know everything.

But I think I got my answer (well I already had it when I started the thread, I just wanted to see other opinions.

Thanks guys for your time, comments and inspiration.

Kind Regards,
Morne

[glorybound]

3D work

I missed this thread, but I'll chime in now.

I started off doing hand renderings and got scared when I saw Accurender. I learned to model in AutoCAD and render in Accurender. I got scared again when I saw MAX/VIZ so I bought it and learned it. After getting good and still earning a living, being scared, I saw V-Ray so again I bought and learned.

I have also noticed that a lot of people are doing their own 3D, but it is comparable to what I was doing 10 years ago. We have a half dozen architectural firms in our town and man are they producing god awful stuff There is a market for good quality 3D illustrations.

Why limit yourself to architectural firms? Developers and real estate companies need to sell... they need a good picture.

I work for a larger builder and I have been trying to teach Revit to 12 architects for 4 years... non have any interest. Learning Revit for me took a week. Heck, try to teach people how to use a blog and they freak!

I think the more poor quality images produced the more valued someone good will be. Cities and towns will require an accurate 3D rendering for permit soon if they don't already. Try to get bank financing without pre-selling 1/2 the units. You need a great image to sell something that isn't built yet. These images I see most places producing would make me run in the opposite direction, not want to take my wallet out.

Not scare anymore here . I have never been busier.

[crazy homeless guy]

I don’t know if you have spent any time working for a firm, but during the design process, photoreal renderings often inhibit the design process. It is basically showing the client something that begins to appear real, but is only designed to a certain level. What happens is that the client spends all of their time talking about whether or not they like the brick color or wall color, etc.., instead of the big picture. Later in the project, after the design is done, or when it is becoming finalized, is really the time for photoreal renderings.

[glorybound]

3D Work

I worked for a large developer in Chicago for 10 years, prior to that for a hotel developer for 5 years and now for a rather large builder... all as the 3D illustrator. I usually got involved fairly early in the process, but the 3D model was used to catch error in the 2d drawings and not for illustrations. This is what I am seeing change. I usually divide the rendering process into 1/3's and the modeling be the first part. This is the part I am seeing architects and designers doing themselves, but I have had some really bad 3D models provided to me that I can't use. Even if the model was done well things are not modeled optimally for texture mapping so I end up modeling most things over again. If the architect/designer provides the model for me it does save me time because things are already figured out. I would say most 2d drawings are wrong and the 3d model makes all that stuff obvious.

[glorybound]

3D Work

We have an Architect who loves selling.... him and I talk often I and I have learned that it is all about selling a service. If you can convince these firms that you can do it better and cheaper then they'll buy.

[Nixon]

hmm

I don't see that happening anytime soon...

The Building/construction market requires two different type of 3D visualizations:
1. concept / model
2. advertisement / marketing tools.

As the softwares progress, it became easier to make just concept / model images right away, to see what the building looks like. And that's important to smaller scale projects, where there's no real need for competitive marketing or anything else.

On a bigger scale, however, projects requiere the proper sales tools, and that's the place where specialized Arch viz studios come in place. Because big projects compete for much larger investments and everything, their marketing teams suggest bigger budgets to make good presentations (not just 3D images).

Arch viz as a profession is not really old (in my opinion less than 15 years), and although it requires lots of specific skills, which take years and years to complete, there's not much understanding what an arch viz person is doing. To some (if not most) people it's just hitting a special "Make beautiful image" button, which is hidden somewhere in the software.

Very little people understand that making a good image/animation requires knowing stuff like composition, color design, lighting desing, timing, editing and many other things which matter.

But, as glorybound stated, if you can convince someone they will profit from your work, and make it for the right money, they'll buy

[glorybound]

Work

I think we all need to give ourselves credit as well. I drove in this morning having the sun glare in my eyes thinking about float points. Talk to the average Joe about float points, RGB, and gamma and they'll assume you are either some kind of Einstein or some kind of nut.

I have read 6 books so far this year on sketching and illustrations.... it is a full time deal to get really good (I am not there yet). It also takes a lot of money.

Not many companies can effort a full time illustrator since most firms, I think 80%, are under 50 employees.

I personally don't mind the idea of leaving the actually modeling to someone else. Since applications like Revit I have been able to change my work flow, allowing for more creative aspects of the process. I still have about a week to complete and image, but now I can spent it mapping textures and compositions.

[dellis]

I would say that, with the exception of the architecture students that are coming out of the schools nowadays, most architects don;t have the time to learn the software improvements....as it relates to the high end graphics. And one other major thing...just cause it s there doesn't mean they are capable of making good imagery. I think that i would go nuts if i was locked down to just one field of 3d anyway. I would just suggest you try and find a way to comfortably and enjoyably embrace change...cause...most often...it happens anyway!

[glorybound]

Mental Ray

I am beta testing Revit 2009 and it does have Mental Ray, but it is really stripped down. You have one dialog box with some basic settings. I wouldn't loose any sleep about Revit and Mental Ray. I'll post a screen shot later. You mentioned v-ray for Revit.. did you know they have v-ray for Sketch-up?

[rmejia]

I am beta testing Revit 2009 and it does have Mental Ray, but it is really stripped down. You have one dialog box with some basic settings.

Aw man, I was really hoping it was close to the Max version.