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Color Workspace - ICC Profile Suggestions/Monitor Calibration

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  • Color Workspace - ICC Profile Suggestions/Monitor Calibration

    I had to recalibrate my monitors today. That being said, I forced myself to investigate deeper into ICC profiling.

    For those that don't know, ICC is the main organization which tries to ensure color fidelity between operating systems, monitors, scanners, digital cameras, and printers. Since there's so many different manufacturers of equipment, ICC was setup with the intent of making sure 'your apples look like apples' from computer to computer to printout.

    So I began my little investigation after toying with Photoshop's color settings.

    1) sRGB was an 'standard' setup by a HP/Microsoft trying to make sure people's colors matched. It is an ICC profile for Windows. Most people use sRGB (unknowingly.) For example, when you save to PDF the profile by default is sRGB.

    From HP's own/old sRGB website: "The goal of sRGB is to develop an '80%' solution."

    "Critics of sRGB also point out that the sRGB gamut (the range of all the colors it defines) is much smaller than all the colors the human eye can see.

    Proponents of sRGB acknowledge the limitations, but also point out that sRGB gamut is close to the actual gamut of most monitors, and includes most of the colors available on most printers attached to computers, so there is little or no color information actually lost in images that are meant to be viewed on screen or printed on a desktop printer."
    - from http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1163281,00.asp

    2) sRGB by default doesn't work on Apples/Macs unless they have manually installed the profiles or use Colorsync. So if your clients (which most people in print do) work on Macs, your image is not going to look close to what you intended on giving them.

    3) Microsoft in-turn to sRGB's limitations said they were going to release 'scRGB', which contains floating point data (information not perceived/going beyond by the human eye.) It is currently used in Windows Vista.


    Some conclusions:

    I looked up the ICC website - the people that actually sets standards in place to see what profile they were currently recommending. It's interesting, and it's not the standard sRGB we all use that ships with Adobe (sRGB IEC61966-2.1.)

    It's purported to be ALOT better:
    http://www.color.org - go to the 'V4' tab.


    These ICC profiles get installed here:
    /Windows/System32/Spool/Drivers/Color

    A download to their latest .icc profile from ICC:
    http://www.color.org/srgbprofiles.xalter

    To be honest, you probably won't notice much of a visible difference between v2 and v4 ICC profiles on an image that you open up. It may be a more of a noticeable difference if you work in floating point images such as those employed by Linear Workflow or other forms of floating-point related post-production.

    Another versions of V4 implementation is located here at the top:
    http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/photoshop/index.htm - I'm thinking about using his 'eciRGB v2 ICCv4' which looks different (possibly better?) than my standard sRGB that I used to use.
    LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
    HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
    Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

  • #2
    why not get ur own monitor calibrator device, create ur own icc based on ur display devices and output sources, and point ur app to that specific profile?
    Nuno de Castro

    www.ene-digital.com
    nuno@ene-digital.com
    00351 917593145

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    • #3
      I've had a few devices - unimpressed with all of them. Especially in the past they didn't support dual monitors.

      I found going through the aim-dtp website and following their instructions/charts to be more helpful. But that still doesn't build a worspace profile which you will have to choose later anyways.

      I picked up a pantone huey recently, but it turned all my monitors a very slight but noticeable magenta. It seems like it has a lot of potential and I'm waiting for them to get back to me.

      But even so, using a colorimeter and creating an ICC profile may or may not (I 'think' not') give you true floating-point colors unless they all fall within the v4 specifications.
      LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
      HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
      Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jujubee View Post
        I've had a few devices - unimpressed with all of them. Especially in the past they didn't support dual monitors.
        I just got a beta software update the other day from DataColor that finally lets me calibrate dual displays in Vista x64 with the Spyder3pro. Seems to work great so far.
        Torgeir Holm | www.netronfilm.com

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        • #5
          @egz - that's reassuring. I'll have to check out the Spyder3 again.

          Well - I suppose one of my questions is whether or not production studios working in float are 'truly' work in floating point information. You'd have to use v4 or the newer Vista sRGB to get true float results.

          Typical sRGB is limited. But then again, no matter what you will be limited on screen by your monitor's color depth and real high-definition cameras unless they shoot in RAW.

          Eventually, monitors followed by consumer televisions will incorporate Brightside's (now Dolby) technology - HDR or rather streaming jpeg HDRs.
          LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
          HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
          Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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          • #6
            We've got the Eye2, at least I think that's one it's called. It came highly recommended, for a sub 1k unit, from our color and materials engineer's vendors. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if all of our vendors have some affiliation with Xrite, so it would be no doubt they would recommend their own product.

            Anyway, for us Dual Monitor guys/gals, I would highly recommend picking up the windows Image Color Management 2.0. It's not too hard to find on Microsoft's site. It allows you to use a different profile for each monitor, which is really what you need for dual monitor setups because even if they are the same model and age they will still come up with different results. At least that's what I've found so far.

            The software also allows you to compare the colorspace in 3D....ooooo. That's actually kind of cool and can be useful to be able to see which colors are lacking on your printer vs. monitor and the other way around.

            Only one thing about it....Sometimes when we restarted our Icc profile would be lost on one monitor. If you open up the color settings, just reapply the profile and it's back to being correct. The only problem is sometimes you can't notice if it's wrong if it's not a large change so you don't know if it's correct or not.
            I wonder if that has been resolved though because it hasn't happened in a long time.

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            • #7
              Last I checked, ICM 2.0 wasn't released for Pro x64.
              LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
              HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
              Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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              • #8
                Color Correction

                I just bought a Spyder3 and calibrated my monitors hoping it would bring my prints closer to what I viewed in the monitor... not quite there but at least my two monitors look a lot more similar than before calibration. The Spyder comes with some presets, one is sRGB which calls for:
                gamma - 2.2
                White Point - 6500k
                Black Luminance - .80
                White Luminance - 80

                Well the white luminance I could range it to whatever, but the black luminance does not go up to .80 in any monitor that I have tried (a few here). I ended up settling for a black luminance of about .30~.40 and a white luminance of 100 for the monitors. The icm profile created by the Spyder can be used for printing and the prints come out pretty similar, another issues is how the prints are being viewed, they need to be under similar lighting conditions as viewed on screen or else they might look to dark (my big problem).

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                • #9
                  Well I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the Spyder3 so far. I'm sure it's not the absolute best, but where do you stop spending money going up.

                  Manually adjusting my gamma has always been a time-consuming guess. At the end of it I'm never 100% sure I have the best results. Then of course this has to be repeated on several monitors. I usually look at the gamma 2.2 charts on my monitor desktop and see if they read mostly grey:

                  http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluatio...pace/index.htm (on the left - 2.2)

                  After using the Spyder, this is the first time the chart has been 99% grey in appearance. It was pretty remarkable.
                  LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
                  HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
                  Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

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                  • #10
                    my spyder2 express does a pretty nice job on my very old and deares sony multiscan E200!
                    eventhough it has passed i should re-calibrate it (so says the poping up note ) those charts are very close to 99% grey here too!
                    Nuno de Castro

                    www.ene-digital.com
                    nuno@ene-digital.com
                    00351 917593145

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                    • #11
                      Spyder3 dun made my mouse pointer pink!

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                      • #12
                        We started with Spyder2Pro a few years back. We found it a little cumbersome to use and never felt confident in it's results. We've recently tried the HueyPRO on a few systems and find it to be very easy to use, get comfortable results and cheaper then the Spyder system.

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                        • #13
                          Another vote for the Spyder 3 here, it's miles better than any other calibration tools that I've used in the past.

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                          • #14
                            I have a few more color calibration and gamma posts that are newer than this one - might be to your advantage to check out.

                            That being said, I'm very careful now as to what Gamma spaces and ICC profiles I use. I'm sticking with AdobeRGB for both my computer and camera space and saving all of my images with AdobeRGB embedded into them.

                            I also calibrate my monitor on top of that using a Spyder 3 for a general screen viewing profile which is working great once you mess around with it at first.

                            Spyder 2 I was unimpressed with. I was also VERY unimpressed with my Huey (which I returned.) It kept adding a magenta tint on my monitor - and the company eventually responded by telling me it was a "defective" unit.
                            LunarStudio Architectural Renderings
                            HDRSource HDR & sIBL Libraries
                            Lunarlog - LunarStudio and HDRSource Blog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jujubee View Post
                              Spyder 2 I was unimpressed with. I was also VERY unimpressed with my Huey (which I returned.) It kept adding a magenta tint on my monitor - and the company eventually responded by telling me it was a "defective" unit.
                              I had that magenta tint too with my spyder3...i read somewhere on the net that it can happen if it's plugged into a usb hub, which i was doing. After going directly into the computers usb port it worked ok. very strange...
                              Marc Lorenz
                              ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
                              www.marclorenz.com
                              www.facebook.com/marclorenzvisualization

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