Anti Autodesk Lobby

[deflix]

I thought I'd start a thread designed to collate as much of the truth about Autodesk and their buisiness practices as possible. Anybody that wants to contribute can do so with links, images or anything else pertaining to the unique 'Autodesk ethic' can do so with inpunity. This is a thread that will probably appeal primarily for the 'old-timers' here but hopefully a younger 'tuned-in' crowd too! I'll start the thread with the following recent story:

http://www.fcsuper.com/swblog/?p=119

The article below is also sadly typical:



Once substantial enough I'll make the information as public and exposed as possible, as I continue on my quest to seek justice for the copious amounts of misery and pain this company has inflicted on the world, and its erosion of everything good about our industry.

Thanks for looking...

[glyph]

seems to me its just 'business' - sure its very hard for the people in the wrong place but its how business/capitalism operates - whether there is a better way is a different question

[deflix]

seems to me its just 'business' - sure its very hard for the people in the wrong place but its how business/capitalism operates - whether there is a better way is a different question

Hmmm not quite actually - this is a common response to be honest. There is something called proportionality and if you consider the state of the 'corporate' form in capitilism it has a very different personality then say an independent developer. When absolutely EVERYTHING is secondary to profit then problems arise - serious problems. Like for example the fact that the software they take on devolves. Or that peoples experience of the software deterioates. And if that wasn't bad enough you then have to consider the law-suits and the anti-customer ethos that proliforates. I'm passionate about the industry and having been in it since the beginning find it impossible to watch a company like Autodesk trample over so much without making some kind of sound. This thread was meant to be a gentle eye-opener because, and this is important; a large percentage of 3d professionals are quite young and simply unaware of how much damage this company has done. Its not a call for apathy.

[stevesideas]

I think the only way things will change is if people swap to a different 3d application. The sales figures will go down. Autodesk will be forced to either really overhaul the product or end its development completely. I think with the amount of people that use 3dsmax this wont happen anytime soon.

[deflix]

sure I agree but a bit of dirt digging would be a good start...............they really are a nightmare company.

[stevesideas]

Im all for change, especially in the right direction.

[beestee]

How much responsibility falls back on the suits of the companies that are still being bought up by Autodesk? Autodesk obviously has a track record now, it really isn't too hard to deduce what is going to happen to your software and employees if you sell your company to them, yet it is still happening.

I have to agree that development for MAX has regressed since it has been acquired by Autodesk, but it would be just as logical to blame Discreet for this as it would be to blame Autodesk.

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

i d say its useless to speak about Autodesk and evolve this thread....it will not change anything....loads of software companies ride on the same wave with autodesk, making newer versions of their softs to be compatible with the latest max......

for what? if the most stable version is max 9???

for example evermotion, in one of their packages, they only have the trees modeled in max 2009!!! therefore user has to import into max an OBJ file like 250 megs big! why in the hell dont they use some older max format i ask???

if other companies will keep supporting undirectly autodesks expansional policy, they will never start listening

they will never start listening anyway.... its like with this engineer form Adobe

for example now, Autodesk completely stopped develomement of Civil 3D

imagine how many companies have bought it!!! but who gives a shit...they wont even apologize!!!

would be nice to organize a global strike though i d bet most of the users would join in if they knew about it ))

[stevesideas]

I honestly dont think a global strike of any sort would happen. Companies that use 3dsmax wont have time to support anything like this. The only way something will work is if some kind of online petition is signed by a LOT of people. These people would have to be people from all walks of 3d, not just a few vray users. Managers of big firms down to small one man band companies. Also, legitimate reasons would need to be established. Saying that you think that 3dsmax has degressed since Autodesk too over isnt going to hold any ground. There needs to be strong arguments with possible comparisons with other programmes in a similar league.

If you could get the backing from large companies with managers that require changes to 3dsmax to support their business, then Autodesk may listen. Forums with a single thread and a few opinions will not rock the boat.

I do agree with you by the way..if that wasnt clear..I think Autodesk have not really added any great features to max since version 9. Possibly the pelt mapping and spline mapping.

[dellis]

I just kind of think these things will right themselves at some point. Capitalism is like that...live by the sword, die by the sword. People buying or not buying their products is the only way to make any real change...and realistically...we haven't reached that tipping point where there are more people pissed off then happy. That isn't saying that everyone agrees with their business strategies and techniques but people are still making a living from what they provide. While i don't agree with a lot of the things they do, in the business sense, i can't complain. I have never felt screwed over at all...and the products they have provided me have always allowed me to do my job and get paid well. As for the discontinuation of a product, its a potential hazard for any program you use. The risks are the same as buying plugins. People have bought them and had them be integral to there work...and then....POOF..their gone. We can't vilify companies for choosing to do something that is adverse to what people want with their own assets. Could they be more compassionate to their user base, for sure...but you're talking about a company that has over 300 000 seats of just one of their products. Is there really an expectation that they could govern themselves like Vlado and the boys(girls)? I don't think that its possible....almost unreasonable.

[deflix]

I do agree with you by the way..if that wasnt clear..I think Autodesk have not really added any great features to max since version 9. Possibly the pelt mapping and spline mapping.

....................but it is so much more then that. Think about the development programmes they bought and just chucked out: like Lightscape for example. They deliberately attenuated a product that was too ahead of its time to permit gradual profitability. This is wrong and it go's straight to the heart of what we do. Prof Greenberg at Cornell University was one of the founding fathers of what we do, and his work on lightscape was happening at a time when Yost were doing 3dstudio, Imagine was available on the Amiga, and other independents were plugging away in a competitive 'captilist environment that bred decent software. Just think about the possibilities - lightscape 2009 fully functioning real-time radiosity solutions with vray quality. Since Autodesk started consuming anything and everything that produced something new or exciting everything simply stopped. This is a matter of fact not debate. the problem for most users (especially the younger ones) is that they cant see the wood for the trees. Just take a look at the games world to see how far technology CAN go when your not being pinned down by a C**t company. its embarrasing. in another 5 years none of us will have a job. all it will take is a greater degree of automation from an unbiased renderer and more simplified versions of skecthup and we really wont have an industry. Evolution exists on both sides of the fence - the user's side but ALSO the developer of the tools. If this symbiosis dissapears we are (for the final time) out of a job.

As for the order - its tall yes - but big things have small beginnings - thats all this thread is meant to be. What better place to start then in a forum of passionate users, most of which aren't anethietised by the pointless humdrum rhythm of upgrades, and versions but who are artists with an eye on the future.

----anyone with any history willing to take a few steps back will acknowledge that 3dsmax is now simply crap software that hasn't changed one iota since kinetix came up with the original formula in the early nineties. It is simply an example of how EVERY piece of software will end up after years of rot at autodesk. Stupidly coded, buggy beyond belief, slow, unacceptably unstable, and completely irrational in so many areas. It has DEVOLVED since they took it on. Just open your eyes and LOOK at what is happening here - maya, softimage, realviz......... the list go's on and on. Is the world really that f****D now that people just turn a blind eye, even if they can see their own demise on the cards? Have you stopped for one minute what might happen if they bought Vray for example - or Maxwell?? would you 'evolve' the thread then ??

ps - I should add that this rant (and i'm having it on a few forums) is my parting shot. Its not even in my interest anymore as I'm so convinced that this industry is finished that I've left it to make computer games instead - salary cut not withstanding. The writing is on the wall guys.

your call.

[trixian]

...snip....The only way something will work is if some kind of online petition is signed by a LOT of people. These people would have to be people from all walks of 3d, not just a few vray users. Managers of big firms down to small one man band companies. Also, legitimate reasons would need to be established. Saying that you think that 3dsmax has degressed since Autodesk too over isnt going to hold any ground. There needs to be strong arguments with possible comparisons with other programmes in a similar league.

If you could get the backing from large companies with managers that require changes to 3dsmax to support their business, then Autodesk may listen. Forums with a single thread and a few opinions will not rock the boat. ...snip....

The problem here is, what alternatives can one choose from other than Autodesk products?
If people really wanted, they could start using Blender\Lightwave\C4d at once, though my experience tells me that wont happen.
Also it doesn't help the case that the work flow\interface of Blender, and to some degree Lightwave, are completely on acid. ( C4d I'm not too familiar with).
Personally I would love to be able to switch to blender. I was actually planning on learning XSI, but now I feel put off. The main reason for me to switch, isn't some glaring software superiority\inferiority, but my total distaste for Mega-Corporations like Autodesk.
Therefore Blender is the only real logical choice, if I am to "stick it to the man", but coming from max to blender makes me feel like a complete idiot, as I have problems even doing the most basic thing there.

I guess this would be the main issue for most people.
Optimal solution: Autodesk goes belly up, and someone else buys the 3dsmax product line and develops it further.

[stevesideas]

ps - I should add that this rant (and i'm having it on a few forums) is my parting shot. Its not even in my interest anymore as I'm so convinced that this industry is finished that I've left it to make computer games instead - salary cut not withstanding. The writing is on the wall guys.

your call.

When you say "this industry", are you talking about arch vis. There is so much more to be done in the 3d industry than arch vis. In my opinion using 3dsmax is still very viable and a lucrative way of earning money. Things couldnt be better for me at the moment...touch wood

Regarding switching over to blender. I too am a little nervous about such things. All that learning etc. Im sure knowing 3dsmax would help...just learning the interface and quirks of that programme instead. The manager of an agency I did some work for a while ago told me they had dropped 3dsmax and gone to blender. Maybe an early sign of the times...

[Morne]

Switching to blender. Are you nuts?

I attempted the switch to blender a while back. But like trixian said, the interface is on acid and I also couldn't even do the simplest things. After about a week of tutorials and messing around, I gave up on that idea. Only thing it did was made me want to through my pc in a blender and grind the crap out of it. Stevesideas, you're fortunate to have things going well, keep it up

[stevesideas]

Does Maya have better support ? Im pretty sure thats one programme that wouldnt get worse. A lot of top film productions are created with Maya.

DVP3D: Im very lucky to be in the position I am. I just hope things stay this way. Who knows whats round the corner...