Conka Visualisation playing dirty

[dapeter]

Yeah I guess I am not quite sure what is wrong with this practice. Yea its a bit sleazy but if you do business seems like you need to know exactly what your competition is doing. Isn't that the number 1 thing you need on a business plan? Am I missing something?

Most banks (from what we were told) require your business plan to have an extremely thorough analysis of competitors if you want to get a loan from them. Part of this is going out and get a quote from them on a similar project and show you can be competitive by attacking them on pricing/quality/speed/etc. Otherwise you're coming to the market potentially offering nothing different, so why would people do business with you?

[Sawyer]

Yeah that's my point. I think its a pretty big deal to know where you stand as a business professional in the playing field.

[olly]

It's not really about the fact that it happened, as you say it does go on alot. Most people seem to be in agreement that it is part of business but it has sleazy undertones and those that have replied seem to be saying: "it's fine, but I wouldn't do it!"

I just wanted to start a discussion to see how others felt about it as in this case we know which company it was through their own ineptitude.

And with that said are any of the quotes coming back really relevant for any moral purpose? I think Conka are based in Wales and they got quotes from companies based in London, Cornwall and Lancashire. There is no way that these day rates can be comparable....

[dellis]

I've never really understand why its acceptable to be a douchebag in the name of business. Yeah...it would be helpful to know what your competitors are charging...but that just seems bad to approach it that way....i would equate it to standing outside of your competitor studios telling clients you will do it for 20 percent less on there way in!

[tammo]

The problem with this is that it takes a lot of work in our business to come up with a reasonable quote.
I have to break the project up into small pieces and think about how long it would take me to complete each of them.
Then i have to write everything down for the client and add costs for rendering, DVDs, Sound, Music and so on.
The whole process takes me about half a day.
Then if they never call you back, you start questioning yourself if your quote was to high or what else could have gone wrong.
So they are causing a lot of damage especially to smaller companies.

[AJ Jefferies]

Nice spot Olly....

They got us to quote last week. Cheeky fuckers.

[olly]

I've just spotted these clowns on Google claiming to be "Europe's Top Visualisation Studio"



It beggars belief the front these people have.

[chrisjacks21]

you have to admit that their new website is very, ahem.......impressive.......

[mdi]

This happens all the time (I think) but this is the first company I know thats ever been caught out. Does make me laugh though that someone can be so stupid as not to edit there WhoIs info to direct it away from there main company. If youre going to lie atleast put some effort into it!

As AJ mentions, we quoted on it too, it was a small apartment block, and was asked to quote on 2 cgis with plenty of nice cars up front (good job I didnt waste time getting cars off backup etc...)

Obviously we never got the job, but I did get en email from Jimmy saying thanks, but they had desided to go with another company in the end - which was a nice touch

Oh, they did have an active Twitter page, but thats now private. Get the feeling somone might have said something.

[olly]

Obviously we never got the job, but I did get en email from Jimmy saying thanks, but they had desided to go with another company in the end - which was a nice touch

We got the same email. I replied asking who got it and to my amazement they said "On this occasion we selected a company called Conka Visualisation."

At least they can hold on to the fact they are "Europe's Top Visualisation Studio"!

Twats.

[mdi]

"On this occasion we selected a company called Conka Visualisation."

OMG! Amazing.

If nothing else we can have a little giggle about it.

[judderman]

So basically they were saying "on this occasion we selected ourselves"?! Hahaha! Idiots.

[tammo]

1.) Everyone call them and get quotes for projects.
2.) Post the results here.
3.) Epic win

[jujubee]

I get people phishing for estimates/quotes about once every 3 days. A lot of times I can detect it because they don't seem lost - they seem to know precise details such as "I have .dwgs, need 1 exterior of an office, two interiors, and 1 minute of animation" and are often straight to the point.

That's usually my first clue but not enough to go on - if they can provide the details that I would normally ask for then it comes off as a red flag. Generally if they seem really lost, then more often than not they're usually someone not to worry about or they're really genuine in looking for a rendering.

Still, I can't just automatically assume as this isn't always the case. I can probe a little bit more and ask them what company they work for. If they hesitate, then that is another red flag. If they say they don't have a website, then that is an additional flag.

Several times, I've actually called people straight out on being a renderer after things added up and each time have gotten it correct. From there, I've gladly explained my reasons for my estimates and pricing structure in the hopes that I will convince someone that there is a minimum that we should all set as an example. Aside from my "average" prices, I try to let my renderings themselves do most of the talking and convincing.

It's very common for people/competitors to phish - and it can be annoying. But occasionally when I have the spare time, I don't mind answering. A few times I've had a few really good conversation with fellow artists.

I personally never engaged in the practice of phishing for prices. I try to shoot for the middle average of what a high-end company will charge and what a lower-end company will charge - while keeping it reasonable that at the minimum I can cover most of my own bills/expenses. I don't even bother trying to factor in countries like China and India because that is purely impossible to compete with.

In a few other cases where I didn't hear back from an inquiry, I'll email or call the architect/developer back and ask them what the status is on their project. I'll also ask them what they did and didn't like, if the pricing structure was fine, if they don't mind telling me who they eventually went with, and if possible what the costs were involved.

But I've never called up another artist/rendering company and asked them what they were charging. It may be a smart strategy, but it never felt morally right as in my mind it's basically telling a white lie. Maybe it's naive, but I feel that if you tell the truth and are honest with yourself, it will show through and will speak to your reputation and integrity. Good karma (hopefully.)

[tricky]

We were asked to do a quote for something a year or so ago from Conka. Seemed reasonably legit at the time but will be conscious of this thread if anything comes up again.

I find it so depressing how the business world works. Why can't we all just behave, work nicely, play fair...in fact, sod this, I'm off to join a hippy commune!