camera tracking / rolling shutter / best HD camera ?

[stevesideas]

So I'm hoping to produce some music videos soon and want to purchase a HD camera that doesn't suffer from the rolling shutter problem. I have heard about plugins that can attempt to solve this problem but I'm not sure how well these work as Ive heard mixed reviews.

So can anyone advise me on a good camera that records HD (preferably up to 60fps) without the rolling shutter problem or at least one that works in production for tracking and produces good results.

edit: im assuming that I may have to go for a HD cam without CMOS as these are the ones that cause the rolling shutter. Ive heard the mini disc/film cams are pretty good for this sort of thing, but im not sure what the HD quality is like in comparison.

[Dariusz Makowski (Dadal)]

Not sure what u are looking at but HD camera cost £5-10k+

U need a pure Raw file format not encoded, to get best of tracking/green screens....

[werticus]

and any form of rolling shutter is a big no no for tracking.

[stevesideas]

ok. So I did I have an EX1 but that suffered from rolling shutter. Don't have it anymore. Im thinking a camera that captures to mini dv might be the way to go. Not sure if there are any HD versions of a mini dv camera. Would you recommend any specific cameras ?

[werticus]

i dont see how what it captures to is relevant? you want a CCD sensor not a CMOS... as basically all CMOS's have rolling shutters. (however i believe someone has patented a CMOS with a global shutter, but i dont think its in production yet.)

[stevesideas]

My misunderstanding. I'll have to look for a CCD camera then I guess.

[stevesideas]

Im not going pro/semi-pro just yet. I need to practice. What do you think of this camera: http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-hi...ck/hdr-cx700ve

It has a HDMI output. Will this be an output for a raw (uncompressed) data or should I be looking for a particular type of output ?

[joconnell]

If you've no slr I'd be tempted to go for a 550d and one or two nice lenses. Tracking is possible with careful camera moves and rolling shutter (even the red has a small amount, and film has weave issues) so the main problem you'd get would be trying to match the distortion in the image if you were trying to graft a perfect 3d line on to a wobbly filmed line e.g. sticking a cg part on to a live action building. If you're going to do bourne identity shots and try to track footage from a camera you kick around like a football then you're screwed. If you're doing normal moves then you should be okay. It might not be 100% perfect but it might be good enough, and the image quality from the 550d will beat the pants off any small sensor video camera.

What type of thing do you want to do?

[Dariusz Makowski (Dadal)]

If we going to dslr id say Sony a55 Its better than cannon 550d atm.

[Morne]

How does the new 60D compare to the 550d? And the Nikon 7000?

[instinct]

(even the red has a small amount, and film has weave issues) so the main problem you'd get would be trying to match the distortion in the image if you were trying to graft a perfect 3d line on to a wobbly filmed line e.g. sticking a cg part on to a live action building. If you're going to do bourne identity shots and try to track footage from a camera you kick around like a football then you're screwed. If you're doing normal moves then you should be okay. It might not be 100% perfect but it might be good enough, and the image quality from the 550d will beat the pants off any small sensor video camera.
What type of thing do you want to do?

Agreed that it is definitely possible to match rolling shutter footage to quite some extent. It's very dependent on the type of shot. The RED's amount isn't that small after all from my tests. Unless that has changed lots in recent firmwares. There's quite some things that go completely bonkers easily (anything that causes vibration can be an issue (bad remote head, heli etc.). Most things worked out in the end tho for us. Wouldn't know for the 550D but i got some really bad car mount wobbling from the 5D MK2 :/

Regards,
Thorsten

[joconnell]

Yeah the 5d despite being a gorgeous image that's bigger than 35mm film is the worst of the lot since it's the first generation. If you're going for emotional impact it's the nicest footage but as regards rolling shutter only the d90 is worse. The 550d is really cheap since the 600d came out (same camera, just an articulating screen which can be handy for low to the ground shots) and if you don't have an slr to start with you're kind of getting a video camera for free.

[instinct]

Nice tip there. Will keep a memo for myself on a personal level

[joconnell]

Stu maschwitz that used to run the orphanage and also writes the excellent cheap filmmaking / post blog at prolost.com came up with a great quote about the 5d - "I like doing things the wrong way, especially when I’m trading technical accuracy for images that make me want to lick the screen."

[plastic_]

I'm a Canon fan, so I'll say 60d. It has the articulated screen, which is great.
It has the same sensor as the 550d/600d, but it's better built, and cheap enough.
The 5dII is full frame and has great shallow DOF, but you don't want shallow DOF in footage for tracking.
If you don't already own Canon lenses I'd suggest the Panasonic GH-2, it has much better ergonomics for video than the Canons.
It has a smaller sensor, which gives you larger DOF and much smaller/lighter lenses. As well as (probably) useable autofocus. It also has built in correction for barrel distortion, which is also good for tracking.

I recommend the ProDad Mercally plugin for fixing rolling shutter and/or camera shake. It does a great job, as opposed to the rollingshutter plugin from The Foundry. With 1080p, you will probably lose about 30-100px resolution, depending on the speed of motion, but it hardly makes a different in sharpness for the end result.
Tracking fixed footage with large DOF is straightforward.
The bigger issue with DSLR's is moire/aliasing. It's pretty bad on my 5dII, and by far the biggest issue for me.
Panasonic seems to be better than Canon in that regard.