who will need vis...

[rivoli]

Homestyler has been out for some time, an never made a sound in the VIZ community

yes, well I guess it's been a blast among those who wanto to go back to the nineties..

[glorybound]

I honestly, and sincerely, think programs like Revit will help our business. Firms will build a model for design and coordination, attempt at photo-real imaging, and be disappointing. They'll Google, "Exterior Renderings", find me, and drop me an e-mail . I will have gotten so good, and proficient, it would be cheaper to hire my services than for them to do it in-house. I have anticipated this path 10 years ago, and tried to position myself on the web, to be found. I have since parked my domain because my boss, at my 9-5, was finding me when searching for terms like architect, architecture...

Anyway... this is just my opinion.

[Sawyer]

What I have found which I didnt anticipate back in the day I ran my studio is that there are people who are satisfied with the revit style renderings. Their clients dont need photoreal and free is the best price. I dont think thats the whole market but it has made me rethink much of my strategy. I have found that 3d is very important to the client but many think that photoreal is just a waste of cash. Now these also arent jobs that are going out be published in magazines or seen by the public. And much of this probably has something to do with our company and the way the higher ups view 3d. We could upsell it I am sure if there was the desire.

[glorybound]

We, as illustrators, need to sell our work. We need to educate the client in why they need to invest in quality, photo-real, images. We need to explain how much it'll cost to change something once it is built, compared to investing in illustrations early. We need to explain value engineering.... We need to explain why they need us! Now, having said that, we need to be cost effective. We can't spend months on a still, and we can't give little value for a lot of money; that never works, in any industry. I have a friend, who does decent Revit work, but I can work faster, and produce better images. If you get the right tools in place (V-Ray), and get really good using them, you'll be able to compete.

I live in upper Minnesota, and we have several wood carvers in our area. If I take one way home, I pass a wood carver who does amazing stuff. If I take another way home, that wood carver does low-quality carving. The good wood carver is an ex-wood shop teacher, with 30 years of experience carving wood. I literally see the low-quality wood carver's stuff in the five-n-dime stores and I see the high-quality wood carver's work in the expensive restaurants. Both these wood carvers use the same tools, but talent can only get you so far. You need to practice and get good, using the right tools, for the right job.

I say this stuff with some confidence because I have been doing architectural illustrations for 25 years, and have been having this same discussion, in one form or the other, the whole time. I stopped worrying about it, and I just try to get better everyday.

[pailhead]

I don't know.. not the people I work with. and I don't know anyone doing 3d, who would be satisfied with anything like that. anything that looks even remotely like that actually..

Like i've said, 3d people have pushed the standard for other 3d people just because of their curiosity. I did NOT say that 3d people would be happy with this result. I said that there are people who don't need art, renderings or whatever, they just need to provide something in order to get a permit. They couldn't care less.

Come on, are you really saying that software such as this did not take a bite out of the market? I know tons of people who used to do 3d studio back in the 90s and in dos, and were already pretty old when the whole GI photo realism thing kicked in. When you're 50 you can't really learn something like this, especially when you've got families and stuff.

[glorybound]

When you're 50 you can't really learn something like this, especially when you've got families and stuff.

I'm pushing 50, have a wife, and two kids. I just don't sleep!

[pailhead]

We, as illustrators, need to sell our work. We need to educate the client in why they need to invest in quality, photo-real, images.

Please don't get this the wrong way...

You can start by educating me! Tell me why the client needs to invest in quality, photo real images.

I can already tell you my stance. If you go to Bjarke Ingels website:

http://www.big.dk/

Youll see some very very ugly renderings. Ugly in terms of us crazy nerdy 3d guys. Beautiful and spot on in architectural terms. I've been doing 3d for a while, and throughout school. The first day i brought a photorealistic rendering, and they've ousted me. I thought id be marked for life, and i pretty much was. First they though that ill only be able to do renderings in life and never actually design anything. Then when they started going online, looking at evermotion stuff, they said that anyone can do photorealistic renderings and that they all look the same, they dont have any kick in them.

But now, every architecture student, in every architectural school, has the same style of renderings. The sterile CGish collage assembled NPR thing, IMHO thats no different than evermotion assembly line.



The thing is, when you provide something like that, you are selling an idea, a vision. When you provide something like a photorealistic rendering, they will actually focus on door knobs, trim profiles and stuff, and make you work much more and much harder. Cost / benefit for the illustrator in that case is horrible.

My homework for tonight is to dig out a bid that i've lost on elance, to a guy from florida who undercut everyone, and provided like early 90s kind of rendering examples in his portfolio. And this was some historical reconstruction or something in chicago i mean ive never seen a proposal like that, i thought that only AMD need apply.

The other thing i will try to dig out is the example that we were provided by Perkins + Will for the august wilson project. This is 2006, and i still take pride in those renderings that i've done then. I really hope that i can dig that up.

[glorybound]

Below you'll find two pencil portrait examples. Which one is better, more accurate, photo-real? Which one cost more? Both artist sell their services, as photo-real pencil portraits, and both make a living doing their art. People still pay for quality work and they still appreciate craftsmanship. High quality designers, architect, and builders, will pay for high-quality renderings! Low quality, production driven, designers, architects, and builders, will chose portrait number 1.

[plastic_]

It's easy to render evermotion style. It's just render settings wankery.
The hard thing is to establish a personal style. I think in 5 years everybody will be able to create a evermotion renders with some online lego modeling tool by autodesk/google.

[glorybound]

It's easy to render evermotion style. It's just render settings wankery.
The hard thing is to establish a personal style. I think in 5 years everybody will be able to create a evermotion renders with some online lego modeling tool by autodesk/google.

OMG! What about composition (visual arts); mood and feeling. They might not know why your images are better, they just know that they are. Both look real, but yours might invoke a feeling.

[glorybound]

I know... we can start a union. You can't call yourself an architectural illustrator without a 5-year professional degree, 3 years internship, and an annual fee. If you call yourself an architectural illustrator, and you don't pay your dues, you get sued!

Go hang out on the web design forums, they are complaining about the same things. Joomla killed their industry, SquareSpace is Satan! To me, Joomla and SquareSpace, made everyone look the same. A good quality web designer is paid very well and will be around as long as the internet is on.

[pailhead]

Bobby no offense, i admire you because you seem friendly and you work really hard, you do tests, you experiment and you're committed. BUT, how can you talk about art, when you are using the same sky for every single one of your renderings, same color, same elements?

[pailhead]

Below you'll find two pencil portrait examples. Which one is better, more accurate, photo-real? Which one cost more? Both artist sell their services, as photo-real pencil portraits, and both make a living doing their art. People still pay for quality work and they still appreciate craftsmanship. High quality designers, architect, and builders, will pay for high-quality renderings! Low quality, production driven, designers, architects, and builders, will chose portrait number 1.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7960[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]7961[/ATTACH]

Both are super kitsch, i wouldn't hang either one on my wall.

[glorybound]

Bobby no offense, i admire you because you seem friendly and you work really hard, you do tests, you experiment and you're committed. BUT, how can you talk about art, when you are using the same sky for every single one of your renderings, same color, same elements?

No offense taken ( I don't think)... I am getting better, faster, and more proficient. I am getting to a point where the software isn't the obstacle, so I can spend more time creating. I have a library that I build on all the time, I purchase everything, so unless I can afford a new HDRI (an example), or I learn to take my own, you'll see the same ones used.

[pailhead]

That wasn't what i was aiming at, all your images have the same mood, same time of day, same background, i didnt see you go "oh, this building has got a nice tower, i want it lit by sunlight" or something like that.

The same reason why i wouldn't call the pencil drawings up there art, is the same reason why i wouldnt call 99% of arch viz art.