Fstorm render

[bardo]

Ok I just these on the fstorm facebook page and I really think we have to find why those renders look so real. The glow, the DOF, the way the light reflect on any kind of surfaces, it looks more real in my humble opinion.

Is that really just the user's experience?

we have to find why it looks more real in order to implement all these little deatails in V-Ray.

If we're speaking about the overall quality of the images...my answer is: absolutely yes...

80% of the image is made by models & textures.

There is a very good attention to the details and professional modelling, texturing, shading and lighting... please..check Peter Guthrie or Bertrand Benoit websites....
If we're speaking about GI algorithm, DOF or others rendering features I can't see anything that Vray can't handle (speaking about Vray CPU).

If we're speaking about rendering speed or only GPU rendering feature we need more informations to judge and we should have the scene for right comparison as Vlado is making with the other fStorm scene provided.

[jstrob]

Ok I just these on the fstorm facebook page and I really think we have to find why those renders look so real. The glow, the DOF, the way the light reflect on any kind of surfaces, it looks more real in my humble opinion.

Is that really just the user's experience?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FSto...1363819826697/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FSto...5399546089791/

we have to find why it looks more real in order to implement all these little deatails in V-Ray.

[Donfarese]

Here you go Vlado, It's not exactly the same as last time, but it rendered out at 3min 35sec on Titan X.

[Donfarese]

Do you mind posting the settings? I tried to render something similar in Redshift, but it came out at 18 minutes.

Best regards,
Vlado

Damn I said to myself no need to save this scene, lol..... I'll remake it and upload it here, then you can play with the actual scene.

[glorybound]

Gotta love those humps.

A camel is a horse, designed by commitee

[joconnell]

A camel is a horse, designed by commitee

[glorybound]

Go Edsel!



I always think of the Edsel when I think of what happens when you try to create something from a large focus group. What did Ford say? “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

[vlado]

Below is a quick fun test, Illuminating sofa with Platinum everything. Rendered in Redshift at 3min50sec.

Do you mind posting the settings? I tried to render something similar in Redshift, but it came out at 18 minutes.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Ivan1982]

Well i got a dream few years ago about gpu ready environment, unfortunately that come to abrupt stop then, it's different now. Actually some of the scenes i did couldn't even fit in gpu. There is failback situation as cpu's are always there but they are so expensive, to maintain render farm able to perform what few 1080 can do is crazy(talking exclusively about vray performance). Just waiting those few crucial changes.
You are welcome, likewise!

[Ivan1982]

Ah ok, i didn't get that impression, that others are requesting odd things.
Maybe you are thinking requests in general on the forums, i must agree to some extent, but people have right to do so.
You said "I think the Choas team listens and they try to implement things that make sense and personally, I trust that they'll make good decisions to stay on top of the render engine heap" probably that is why people are asking/requesting.
Anyhow i don't think Edsel was good comparison either way.
Of course, unless you are like Edsel that much and you just wanted to express that by posting that link

[joconnell]

We are back at the start

I agree some big studios would laugh their ass off if you mention them GPU in production. They do not care, they probably have much important stuff on their mind.
On other hand you have individuals and small studios that simply can't afford all those options big studios can and they would be screwed if there isn't alternatives.

You have Nvidia on one hand battling to stay alive, they don't have x86 licence like AMD(ATI) and it is much harder for them in mobile market as they are under pressure from giants(Intel, Samsung, Qualcomm...) it is just fraction of a fraction of resources for those giants to overwhelm Nvidia in that particular market.
That is why they can't afford 5-10% increments every 4 years like Intel. Only market where they are financially viable to survive in the long run is this "processing power for masses" promoting VR, utilization of all sorts of different game engines, small rendering engines that rely on cuda... all kind of gimmickry on their side to stay afloat. They are not some fairy tail ideal company but they deliver hope that we do not have to have 10 computers to render animation.

Maybe Intel have some mega cool processors they are not talking about, waiting to bury competition... but if i am to learn from history, big systems are not some mystery machines that know every aspect of their business, they are often hollow from the inside and usually head doesn't know what hand is doing, where petty jealousy and "experts" rule, billion dollar tax money deals, they are making so many products that they even do not need to sell desktop CPU's, how to expect they will care about anything else except cash, this situation is favoring that model.
I am not the only one feeling like this about current state of CPU market, top of the line CPU(4k euro xeon) can't even come close to compare to one middle tier GPU(400euro), if we disregard current memory limits(those low end GPU have) and undeveloped render engines it is clear where perf/$ value is in upcoming years.
It is much cheaper to build GPU node, much easier to upgrade, maintenance comes with less hustle. There is already new developments on the way to deal with memory issues like NvLink.
I really can't say i would bet my money on CPU in a long run. I know big studios spent loads of cash to upgrade their farms but i am looking at that like passive obstruction in development and transition to GPU.
It is same stuff like in automotive industry now, technology is already developed enough so we could start switching from internal combustion to electric but those big companies willingly or unwillingly always postpone that transition, what would be oncore to their current development if they do not develop electric? They probably act same as anyone else in that position would, making some ridiculous small baby steps, instead giant leaps like someone who is starting from scratch in that business, maybe newcomer doesn't have that extra bagade on his back and it is more free to do what it want's, to experiment and genuinely be more open and embrace new ideas. Comparing self driving car, that is cheap to run, doesn't require that much maintenance and it's faster to similar priced internal combustion car is not even fair... They are not perfect but sure there is enough room for development, same as GPU except big difference is that GPU technology is much more developed than current electric car technology.

Tapping GPU market is maybe number one priority to Chaos but they are keeping it to themselves, who knows. I can conclude that making Blagovest Taskov as lead developer(jan 2016) already showing results, there is more changes in past 6-7 months regarding GPU(he mentioned supported features few posts ago) than in previous 3-4 years, just don't want to see them stop and start calculating risks too much , this is probably most awaited service pack regarding GPU development ever.

Yep I get you. At the minute I've got less interest in GPU as it won't do all of my final renders but again I work in a different area to you. As you say though gpu's are pushing ahead far faster than cpus can so all of the things you're pushing for with your current work will be the things I'm asking for when GPU memory doubles in a few years time

Great to have the discussion on the forum and your work is gorgeous!

[glorybound]

Unless you think that you are the only one requesting things get implemented. The Choas team would run ragged if they did everything everyone asked. I think the Choas team listens and they try to implement things that make sense and personally, I trust that they'll make good decisions to stay on top of the render engine heap. Over the years there has always been a flavor of the month and that's probably healthy, but you need to take it with a grain of salt.

[Ivan1982]

Really bad example, we are not talking about creating monstrosity, no one is here asking to implement upright radiator grill on Vray we are talking about bringing gap closer between CPU and GPU versions of Vray itself, well at least i do.
That is why i mentioned some features that need to be modified or supported, they are coincidentally already supported in some other rendering engines that are GPU based, CPU version of vray supports that already and they are working fine.
Bringing GPU power to Vray, it is far from edsel approach to things.

[glorybound]

The Edsel, an American car in the 50's, was built for the people and by the people. The US government asked the people what they wanted in a car, and they built it. Trying to make everyone happy, the car was a monstrosity and failed miserably.

http://classiccars.about.com/od/clas...az/a/Edsel.htm

Moral of the story is, you can't make everyone happy.

[Ivan1982]

We are back at the start

I agree some big studios would laugh their ass off if you mention them GPU in production. They do not care, they probably have much important stuff on their mind.
On other hand you have individuals and small studios that simply can't afford all those options big studios can and they would be screwed if there isn't alternatives.

You have Nvidia on one hand battling to stay alive, they don't have x86 licence like AMD(ATI) and it is much harder for them in mobile market as they are under pressure from giants(Intel, Samsung, Qualcomm...) it is just fraction of a fraction of resources for those giants to overwhelm Nvidia in that particular market.
That is why they can't afford 5-10% increments every 4 years like Intel. Only market where they are financially viable to survive in the long run is this "processing power for masses" promoting VR, utilization of all sorts of different game engines, small rendering engines that rely on cuda... all kind of gimmickry on their side to stay afloat. They are not some fairy tail ideal company but they deliver hope that we do not have to have 10 computers to render animation.

Maybe Intel have some mega cool processors they are not talking about, waiting to bury competition... but if i am to learn from history, big systems are not some mystery machines that know every aspect of their business, they are often hollow from the inside and usually head doesn't know what hand is doing, where petty jealousy and "experts" rule, billion dollar tax money deals, they are making so many products that they even do not need to sell desktop CPU's, how to expect they will care about anything else except cash, this situation is favoring that model.
I am not the only one feeling like this about current state of CPU market, top of the line CPU(4k euro xeon) can't even come close to compare to one middle tier GPU(400euro), if we disregard current memory limits(those low end GPU have) and undeveloped render engines it is clear where perf/$ value is in upcoming years.
It is much cheaper to build GPU node, much easier to upgrade, maintenance comes with less hustle. There is already new developments on the way to deal with memory issues like NvLink.
I really can't say i would bet my money on CPU in a long run. I know big studios spent loads of cash to upgrade their farms but i am looking at that like passive obstruction in development and transition to GPU.
It is same stuff like in automotive industry now, technology is already developed enough so we could start switching from internal combustion to electric but those big companies willingly or unwillingly always postpone that transition, what would be oncore to their current development if they do not develop electric? They probably act same as anyone else in that position would, making some ridiculous small baby steps, instead giant leaps like someone who is starting from scratch in that business, maybe newcomer doesn't have that extra bagade on his back and it is more free to do what it want's, to experiment and genuinely be more open and embrace new ideas. Comparing self driving car, that is cheap to run, doesn't require that much maintenance and it's faster to similar priced internal combustion car is not even fair... They are not perfect but sure there is enough room for development, same as GPU except big difference is that GPU technology is much more developed than current electric car technology.

Tapping GPU market is maybe number one priority to Chaos but they are keeping it to themselves, who knows. I can conclude that making Blagovest Taskov as lead developer(jan 2016) already showing results, there is more changes in past 6-7 months regarding GPU(he mentioned supported features few posts ago) than in previous 3-4 years, just don't want to see them stop and start calculating risks too much , this is probably most awaited service pack regarding GPU development ever.