How to make money doing 3d modelling and rendering ?

[sentidos]

Hi guys,

This is important for my future

I am far away from the big cities and need to work from home.
And would like to do 3d modelling and rendering for a living.

How do you handle with that ? Which is the best way of working (earning a lot of money) in this field ?
I am an Industrial Designer. I can do product design, concept design, illustration, 3d modelling and now I am a Vray begginner.
You can see some of my work at:
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/guirlins/Sentidos.htm
http://www.coroflot.com/sentidos

I got some 3d models for sale, but I think there may be another ways.


Any ideas ?
Any experiences to share ?
Any jobs ?


I know this forum is a good beginning.
Thank you all !

[ultra]

Hola !

Nice work, i've seen a lot of work oriented towards architecture VIZ in this forum, of course there are many more orientations, in architecture VIZ i've also read that it is convenient to contact developers and contractors for they have the money to spend on the VIZ, i dunno what the case may be in industrial design, but you should talk to Advertising agencies that do not have their in house 3D and provide service for them

;o)

[sentidos]

was just an illusion ?

Tnx ultra !


Hey !
Anybody there !

Do you work on Computer graphics, or it is just a hobby for you guys ?
Please, don´t tell me that !

My dream about living doing renders is just that ? a dream ?


Please !
Give me some hope !

[Hallock]

I'm currently doing freelance architechtural work and I'm sixteen years old. The way I got into it was more dumb luck, a friend of my father, an architect, saw some of my work and wanted to talk to me, needless to say I had a job the next day. From what I've seen so far, it doesn't matter who you are, how old you are, or what school you went to, it matters what you can do for your customer. They won't care about the guy who went to some fancy art school who produces crap pictures, they will care about the guy who just got out of high school and can produce amazing images for them. (This doesn't apply if you're looking to get in to a firm, because they will care if you have former training)

I live in a relatively small but popular town outside of Detroit (Royal Oak) where it's a battleground between three development firms basically, all trying to put up the same type of units. So my timing was pretty lucky. The best way to get started is figure out what you're looking to be doing. Around these parts most people do architectural visualization, but there's also game development, animation, and much more. If you're going in to the architechtural visualization department, I'd suggest creating a portfolio of your architectural work and being active and going out to firms and asking if your services could be in use. Some firms don't even know about 3D visualization.

You could probably start off in your spare time, don't quit your job. I managed to balance my job with school, and it was something I could do in my spare time because I'm able to correspond by e-mail and phone to the person I worked for. I made about $2,000 last month in my free time, I charge $125-$300 per render (Which is considerably low compared to others, I know some people who charge $900-$2000)

[TRGraphics]

Hallock, I'm not sure advising someone just getting into 3d to do as you have and reduce the rates in an area is a good idea. I'm quite sure that the people who are supporting families or even just paying rent somewhere don't appreciate the rates you charge for work in the Detroit area.

The rates in a given area are there because thats what the market will pay for quality renders and to low ball your fellow artists and then brag about it here, really upsets me.

I'm not from the Detroit area but we have a few people here that have tried to do the same thing but failed due to poor quality. They eventually had to leave the area due to the bad reputation they had developed with other artists. No one would hire them when they needed a job. Something you should consider since you are so young.

When you grow up and have a family to support, or even just have to support yourself, you may understand what I'm talking about!

Tony

[cocolas]

I charge $125-$300 per render

woaw....that IS low...
you're doing some serious undercutting man.......it's a free market and one can do what ever one wants, but that is redicously low.....and besides hurting the industry in general (not necessarily you, but generally undercutting by that much), it will eventually backfire on you as well.

As you become better and better at this, it will come to a point where you realize that you need to/are worth more than what you charge, but by then most of your costumers will be used to your very cheap rates, and they will not take lightly you wanting to increase prices on them just because one day you woke up and thought you're worth more...even if you might be. A lot of your business will come from previous relations and past collaborations w/ clients you've worked with, and once they get used to a certain price range (whether lower or higher) it will be very difficult to persuade them otherwise....

just some thoughts...

paul.

[RErender]

Hehe, It's all about the overhead and Hallock doesn't have any. When I was a kid I mowed a couple neighbors lawns for 5$ appiece while the "pros" were probably charging $30 or $40 a shot. I'm pretty sure I did not destroy the landscape business in my town. I doubt he is going to drop out of highschool to do Viz and hopefully he will go to college too. So the market is probably safe for a few more years. Still though, I agree why sell yourself short when you could make more $ , just tell the architects that some big bullies are going to beat you up if you don't raise your prices.

[natty]

When stating out its always hard to know what to charge.. to little and a client will think your to cheap ... price to high and you wont even be considered for a job because the guy down the road can do it $200 cheaper.. what i tend to do is charge fairly cheap (around £400) per visual but within the contract / agreement they must have a minimum of 3 visuals. but im only a one man band so i can afford to keep my clients happy with pricing and me !....

[Da_elf]

the market here is good when it comes to archetecture. but selling my service for my price is tough. there are quite a few people doing arch viz but the quality is not good at all. However its been this way for a while so clients wonder why they should pay more for something better when they can get something they are accustomed to for cheaper. thank goodness since i started business last september ive managed to change peoples thinking 1 client at a time. i basically dont charge less than 1000$ for any arch viz project. thats about 500$USD

[natty]

and what does that include Da_elf ?
how many shots ?
or do you quote per job?

[sentidos]

thanks !!

Thank you all for the data !
I am a new one on this , and all the info is very usefull for me.

Any suggestions about steps to follow to become a freelance modeller/renderer ?

[Hallock]

In response to TR,
I didn't advise him to cut hsi rates, the only reason I'm charging so low currently is that I really had not a clue as to what I should be charging, I tried calling a few of the other (One really far away) firms around here and they wouldn't tell me. The reason I'm charging $300 right now is A) I'm on contract for that amount currently and got offered that originally and B) I didn't have the slightest idea what to charge originally. I don't think ignorance is lowballing, and when got talked to about pay he said, "About $125-$300," what am I supposed to say? "No, multiply the second number by three and then I'll work for you." The market here is one gigantic CAD firm, the freelance basis is non-existant, so in a sense there really wasn't a market for what I'm doing. I don't really enjoy working at such a low price, however around here, people won't talk to you because of your age if you're not charging less than other people. I fail to see how I 'bragged' about it as well. In anycase, my rates will be raised at the end of my current work order (I'm thinking in the range of $600-$900, enough to stay competative, but where I'm still in the same range as everyone else). TR, the quality of my work isn't poor (I know you weren't insinuating that, but I just wanted to clarify) and the other people around here basically do strictly exterior renders, interiors hadn't been done yet until now to my knowledge. I do understand what it means to be submarined in a corporate world, and it sucks. The people I know who charge $900-$2000 mostly aren't from around here.

Cocolas, couldn't agree with you more.

and Cocolas,

[TRGraphics]

First of all, you said nothing about a contract for renders with one individual. That is certainly a different situation than bidding against others in an area. You also said you charged $150.00 - $300.000 per render. Not that this was what was offered to you by an individual to do work just for them. I got the impression you did all your work for these low rates. I certainly didn't get the impression you only had the one client. I guess we both learned a little something here.

There really is no point in argueing this. It now sounds like you understand that undercutting the market is not a good thing to do for yourself or your future market. Thats great! I would hate to see someone as young as yourself start off on the wrong foot if this is a business you enjoy and want to do in the future.

One thing I might suggest is that you just ask someone here at the forum. I've seen a few topics that discussed this issue and I'm sure if you were to ask, you would get the answers your looking for. We all had to go thru the same issue ourselves.

And no, I wasn't suggesting your work was of poor quality. Just to cheap

Tony

[ihavenofish]

well, its been a little while since i have freelanced, but i think i can put forth some of the general rules i have used.

1. calculate your overhead. unless you are a software pirate living in your mom's basement, YOU HAVE OVERHEAD.
example(in canadian dolars... 1 usd = 1.35cdn):
3dsmax6 $4800
photoshop CS $900
vray $1100
computer(something reasonably nice) $3000
net connection $450 / year
we'll assume rent is your house and will be out of your personal income.
so thats near $10,000 you'll be spending almost yearly. i say yearly because you will always be buying something, even if you dont pay $4800 every single year to upgrade max etc(printers, paper, additional plugins). this is a single pc setup, no render nodes.

2. calculate your estimated hours. if you are a student doing this in spare time, 20 hours per month is a reasonable estimate. devide your expenses by your yearly hours. in this case that makes $41 per hour you have to recover just to pay for hardware and software.

3. calculate what you would like to earn. this varies from city to city, country to country. i live in canada, and my brother makes $20/hour as a grocery store stock boy. i'd like to think i am woth at least as much as a stock boy, so i'll stick the wage in this example at $20/hour
this brings our total hourly rate to $61. thats the break even point. not even a profit yet. no subaru impreza for you.

4. accurately guage your job times. with practice you will learn to guage what amount of time you think a job will take. take this number and multiply by 3. for an architectural viz rendered at 4k with photo-realish lighting, modeled from a fixed finnished set of planes and materials, i'd alot myself 15 hours x 3. 15 for what i think it will take, x3 because i know i will f*** it up. if you dont think you will screw up, you are dilusional(and dont absorb the costs of screw ups, unless of course you really messed up bad and rendered the wrong building). so thats a 45 hour job. 1 image. printed on nice glossy paper.

45 x 61 = $2745 cdn. thats the base price i would charge given the above circumstances. i personally have an hourly rate significantly higher than that as i have more expenses generally. you'll note there is no charge for rendering. unless you are paying $1/kwh for electricity, or ONLY rendering someone else's file, this is common practice.

5. bill for changes! let me say that again. BILL FOR CHANGES. so many times i have put in my 45 hours(cause i screwed up) and the client want 100 hours worth of changes. you have to bill those hours. make sure the client knows you will be doing this up front too. they seem to ask for less then

6. account for your quality. the rate above ($61/hour) is a minimum. thats the rate you charge if you are a beginner or you suck if you feel your skill/speed warrants, student or not, upcharge what you think you are worth. there of course is a limit, but clients are often willing to pay more for what they think is higher quality. its your job to convince them you are.

7. stick to your set price. clients often like to haggle. well, always. if you've already given the low price, you have no where to go except into the red. thats bad. if you are offering the low price up front. make sure you stay with it. otherwise, anticipate this and pad the opening bid. this often works great cause clients are not too bright. "the price is $5000, but because you are a good customer, i'll do it for $4500" they'll be stoked! never give a new customer the low price, because they will expect an even lower one down the road. oh, and NO FREEBIES. you never get what you are promised out of it.

8. dont be afraid to tell a cheap customer to take their business elsewhere. i used to bow to them, but then, after getting fed up and telling them to go away, a surprisingly large amount comne back willing to pay the full price. usually because i have higher quality services than the competition.

well, there you have it. 8 easy steps to ... well, not losing money instead of making it. alot of these can be bent to suit situations, but generally, if you ever want to turn this into a real business (or are struggling in a real one) these are good to follow.

oh, and if you simply cant make enough money to support this list, which doesnt even really give profit, then perhaps you should think of another business. i hear stock boys are well paid...

later

[jujubee]

You can always sell some models on some 3d sites like Turbosquid. I spent one whole month making models and taking items from projects I've worked on to sell - I don't get a whole heck of a lot but it's been suprisingly steady and better than nothing.