Net 30 Payment terms.

[glorybound]

Good article on net-30 payment terms and an easy read. I don't sign projects that don't give a deposit and balance upon completion, do you?

https://blog.freelancersunion.org/20...yment-terms-2/

[flino2004]

Probably is a cultural thing and I got nailed sometimes here in US... I'm from Peru and shaking hands is more important than sign a contract or ask for deposits. I meet my clients and is a two ways meeting interview so I would say that 95% of the time works... I ask for a deposit when it's necessary for the scale and expenses, not a way to measure trust.

[glorybound]

Probably is a cultural thing and I got nailed sometimes here in US... I'm from Peru and shaking hands is more important than sign a contract or ask for deposits. I meet my clients and is a two ways meeting interview so I would say that 95% of the time works... I ask for a deposit when it's necessary for the scale and expenses, not a way to measure trust.

I don't think I would ever not ask for a deposit. For one thing cash flow is critical. I would go months without cash if I didn't get deposits. Plus, it gives you credability and, it weeds out the crooked people. I have some projects that the deposit never arrives, or the project is pulled for one reason or another. Last month I had a guy, who I have done work for before, ask me to start a job without a deposit. I said no, but he kept asking me for progress. After several week, he said he was waiting for his client to send a deposit and his client never did, so the project was canceled. All kinds of reasons to get a deposit.

[flino2004]

Maybe I was lucky to do business with the right people or maybe I'm lucky choosing my clients...I don't think asking for a deposit gives you credibility other than cash flow and I do ask for it when I really need it because of the expenses of the project... My agreement is with the company/person who wants my services if the final client of my client doesn't pay them if something between them. (I always get pay) only a couple projects I didn't get paid in full because I accepted being almost a partner or joint venture.
Most likely what you told me is because you are exposed to more new clients you have to do that and I don't .... my main business is design and I do some visualization for old clients or new clients related to the old ones so the possibility of getting burnt in very slim.

[glorybound]

Maybe I was lucky to do business with the right people or maybe I'm lucky choosing my clients...I don't think asking for a deposit gives you credibility other than cash flow and I do ask for it when I really need it because of the expenses of the project... My agreement is with the company/person who wants my services if the final client of my client doesn't pay them if something between them. (I always get pay) only a couple projects I didn't get paid in full because I accepted being almost a partner or joint venture.
Most likely what you told me is because you are exposed to more new clients you have to do that and I don't .... my main business is design and I do some visualization for old clients or new clients related to the old ones so the possibility of getting burnt in very slim.

First, why wouldn't you ask for a deposit?

I don't know of a service that doesn't require a deposit. It seems to be a mixed basket for us and like a lot of things in our industry, it is the Wild West. Some require 75% for new clients, 50% for existing clients and maybe less % for really large projects, but there is a mid-project payout. Every small business/freelance book I read says to always get a deposit. I have a contract, but I have already found out that having a contract is one thing, but inforcing it is another. Try to get a lawyer involved for less than $10,000. Small claims, sure, but you have no recourse for overseas clients. I automate things, so when they except the quote they are brought to the contract. Once the contract is signed they are send to the deposit invoice. Not until the deposit is paid do I schedule the project. The deposit invoice has a tentitive schedule, but that is contingent on them paying the depositt. I have been doing this so long, it is just how it is. My after project survey tells be that almost all of my clients were impressed by the professionalism; they trusted that I had my act together. To me, the 100% guarantee before you pay just says, "I am starting out and I want to practice on your project"

[flino2004]

I design houses so I can go against the property if they don't pay.....Some of my clients are builders and they don't have any problem because of their reputation. ....for design services the contracts are way over 10k and for visualization 60% less than 10K.
charging a deposit doesn't have anything to do with how professional you are.... Potential clients pick me but I decide if they become clients, I turn down many potential clients because I didn't feel we were the right fit and I think I have a good eye for that.
I also have good feedback from my clients because my conversations are not focused on money and payments ( you can easily fall into the car salesman category if you stress too much the fees) ... My conversation is about my services them, They introduce me to their family and friends as "my architect" , they call me for advice about colors for one room and the next month I have a new project of somebody from their network even if I am for expensive than others. because of the comments.

Different ways to do business and both seem to work so far.

[jackieteh]

Thank you for sharing, same here, i am would not sign projects that don't give a deposit and balance upon completion, i rather go back to work for a company and doing part time at home as freelance if i really cannot get a job with deposit.

[glorybound]

I design houses so I can go against the property if they don't pay.....Some of my clients are builders and they don't have any problem because of their reputation. ....for design services the contracts are way over 10k and for visualization 60% less than 10K.
charging a deposit doesn't have anything to do with how professional you are.... Potential clients pick me but I decide if they become clients, I turn down many potential clients because I didn't feel we were the right fit and I think I have a good eye for that.
I also have good feedback from my clients because my conversations are not focused on money and payments ( you can easily fall into the car salesman category if you stress too much the fees) ... My conversation is about my services them, They introduce me to their family and friends as "my architect" , they call me for advice about colors for one room and the next month I have a new project of somebody from their network even if I am for expensive than others. because of the comments.

Different ways to do business and both seem to work so far.

Fair enough. I think the deposit does just the opposite, it eliminates the talk of money.

[JezUK]

Which path one chooses in this regard is of course very much a personal decision - but it was only until I read Bobby's take on always insisting on a deposit (in some post about 8 months or so ago), that I now too only work with deposits upfront, no exceptions. And my whole mindset and confidence has shifted, so much so, that when I ask for a deposit, the potential client picks up on that confident approach and *knows* that that is how I take work on, and no other way. And they have no problem with it.

Before, when I wasn't so confident, they would pick up on this and there'd be scope for them to negotiate (but not any more !).

Only *one* recent potential client has ever argued about paying a deposit and this arguing went on endlessly via back and forth emails with him claiming that I didn't need a deposit etc, that there was trust etc yada, yada...... but when push came to shove, things went a bit quiet and eventually his client canned the project - so I was right to NOT start ANY work without that deposit first. I was vindicated. And thanks to that experience, I am even more clear than ever in my mind, to ALWAYS get a deposit beforehand, no exceptions (don't start until the money is in my account), otherwise those potential client simply might not be serious.....

Works for me and I sleep easy and do the work with more effort and enthusiasm than were it to be any other way.

[glorybound]

I am glad to hear that. The people who complain about money are the most difficult to please, so I avoid them. Not only do they want to pay less, they want to get more. The last few years I have been in a good place with a large backlog of work, so the price I quote is what it is and if they don't want to pay it, then I am perfectly fine to walk away. This should be the same attitude as if I had no work lined up. Yes, giving a fee with a deposit, no questions asked, does build confidence on both sides of the table.

[glorybound]

Also, there is a science to it. Them putting money on the table puts skin in the game and it motivates us. The balance motives us to complete the project and it motives them to pay the balance to get the final work. I am working on a large $14,000 project and they paid 100% upfront. Nice, but to keep motivated and to keep moving forward isn't as easy. I think of myself as a moral person, so I will still give it my all, but not having that balance waiting for me at the end ruins the fun.

[mitviz]

I was contacted recently by a company that wanted to do a really complex boat display space in Paris, near the ifle tower, the project had a great price, was say close to the 10k euros mark but the client first was rude, condescending and saying they just need amazing images and its not too hard, first red flag. Then saying they worked with two paris companies who only took their money and they were not pleased with the images, they were not good to tell you the truth and they spend about 6 months on them. they are near the deadline and need them in 6 weeks, second red flag. then ontop of it all, they wanted to use my name in the exhibition in exchange for not paying a deposit until they saw the first space images done and including all the revisions, and that space was the largest. I just listened for a minute or two more and then said sorry, I cannot help you, the woman got crazy then i just hung up the phone and they kept sending me emails after emails. Some clients are just not worth the shit sometimes no matter how much money they offer and under such tight deadlines, no way, i could have pulled it off easy but no deposit and rude clients, big no no

[glorybound]

I am dealing with two as we speak. One keeps on adding views as if they are free. No, really! I quoted 6 and he is now up to 12.

[skogskalle]

I work in Sweden and I dont think asking for a deposit is the norm here. Or maybe everyone is doing it except me ? I dont even work with contracts. I talk to the client on the phone, or have a meeting face to face, and if there are no obvious red flags I go ahead with the project. If its a big project I send them an email where I detail what should be done and how much it will cost and when I get the "go ahaid" email from the client I start the work. Guess thats sort of a contract but would probably not hold up legaly if things went south. In 15 years ive only had payment-issues two times. One time the clients company went bankrupt, but he payed me with his own money about year later so no hard feelings there, and the other time the project was so full of red flags I should have never touched it! (super fast project, very well payed, new client I had never met or heard of etc) The client took the images, moved to another country, and even with a contract it would have been too much work to get the money back.
Ofcourse some clients dont pay in time but thats a minor issue. If they pay after 60 days instead of agreed 30, I honestly dont even care.

I should say that 70-80% of my work now is for clients I have already worked with before, so that makes things easier...

[PIXELBOX_SRO]

50% deposit with a brand new client is a must here in the Czech Republic - we had many cases where we had to ask our lawyer to push the payment somehow with disrespectful clients. The rest 50% payable within 14-20 business days after completitions.
With ongoing clients, we dont ask for deposits unless the job doenst reach certain amount or certain delivery date thats too big for us - mostly for the sake of handling good cash flow