SU and Revit Rant

[glorybound]

Is there a point in your practice that you stop excepting SketchUp and Revit models? I have been getting some so bad, I could have modeled from scratch 10X faster than trying to clean up the mess. People want discounts, but I want to tack on a sanity tax. If SU or Revit is in your workflow it might work, however, these are from unknown resources and not modeled by me.

[theedge]

I hear you Bobby.
Sketchup models are 99% of the time pure crap. For projects modeled in sketchup I don't apply any discount beause I know I'll model everything from scratch.
For Revit models most of what I recieve is quite ok actually. Of course there are always things to fix but generally marginal.
I usually have more trouble with archicad models that don't export as clean as revit. But they are mostly ok too, just need more work.

The problem is not the software itself but the way people use it and create the model. Revit is a complex beast and all of my client who use it have had a training to master it. Archicad is more 50/50 : because it is perceived as being easier, some people think they can get away without any sort of training. And finally sketchup... it is so easy and accessible that literally anyone uses it, even people without the slightest notion of 3D modeling. And that shows in the end result.

[rikou]

I hear you Bobby.
Sketchup models are 99% of the time pure crap. For projects modeled in sketchup I don't apply any discount beause I know I'll model everything from scratch.
For Revit models most of what I recieve is quite ok actually. Of course there are always things to fix but generally marginal.
I usually have more trouble with archicad models that don't export as clean as revit. But they are mostly ok too, just need more work.

The problem is not the software itself but the way people use it and create the model. Revit is a complex beast and all of my client who use it have had a training to master it. Archicad is more 50/50 : because it is perceived as being easier, some people think they can get away without any sort of training. And finally sketchup... it is so easy and accessible that literally anyone uses it, even people without the slightest notion of 3D modeling. And that shows in the end result.

so true..... so agree with your point !
I model everything from scratch to avoid anything to fix later...
Every models have changes during production,and I'm happy to have a full 3D made by... me !
It's always faster to changes anything in that way

[flino2004]

Charge your fee as it is, like modeling from scratch ( as it should be) because nobody has the obligation of probating you the model.... I don't do discounts anyways so to me it's the same if they give me 2d AutoCAD files or Revit or SketchUp.

[Franx]

i personally prefer 2D cad files (floor plans, elevations, site) and model everything myself in Max. Like said above, it depends on who's doing the initial modeling, I've had some workable SU files but they're usually like cardboard boxes with holes in them...

[particlerealities]

I primarily model with SketchUp (and create Components out of every single object I model). I'd be curious to know what the most common problems are with SketchUp models once imported into Max. Prior to purchasing a V-Ray for SketchUp license, I always imported my SU models into Max, fixed any materials that weren't rendering correctly, then generated my final renders. If the model needed updating, I'd erase that object from Max, fix in SketchUp, then re-import the revised object(s). Obviously there are some things that are way easier to model in Max (free-form objects like furniture pieces, etc.). I'll do those in Max if I have to. LOL

Maybe because I don't edit the SU geometry inside of Max is why I don't immediately see the problem with importing SU files.

I'm not posting to argue with anyone's comments about SU models being pure crap - I just want to know why people feel that way so I can build my models better.

[glorybound]

It might be MAX. I have single objects with normals in every direction. A single plane comes in as triangles and each normal is flipped opposite of the one next to it. I can have a dozen windows and each material ID is different, so a material id 1 might be glass on some and on others, the glass could be material id 28. You can't separate my materials because the whole model has one material, just different id's.

[particlerealities]

It sounds like maybe the model you're working with wasn't modeled with components. So the whole model is one big object. My models (inside of max) usually allow me to use the material picker to select a particular material (windows, for example), then I can use Max to select all objects with the same material and it only selects the windows. If you select the material with the picker and you get one huge multi sub-object material, then yeah - that sucks - it was not modeled with components so it's just one really big object. I'd probably start over too. LOL

[flino2004]

Is there a point in your practice that you stop excepting SketchUp and Revit models?

it would be a huge mistake because Revit & Sketchup are almost a standard in architecture..... I never take in consideration that I would use 3d parts provided by the client so if I can it's in my favor but otherwise I assume that I have to model everything.

[glorybound]

it would be a huge mistake because Revit & Sketchup are almost a standard in architecture..... I never take in consideration that I would use 3d parts provided by the client so if I can it's in my favor but otherwise I assume that I have to model everything.

Fair, but I also experience the architect getting an attitude because I was given the job that they were not able to do, which happens often. There are no CAD files, just the 3D model which was poorly done.

[DanSHP]

Grrr just thought I'd chime in here! Sketchup files are the most infuriating to work with in max.

Holes everywhere, random back facing polygons, god forbid it isn't in layers too.

We just upgraded to 2018 and I thought it may solve some of these issues but, NOPE!

The only thing that seems to help out, is asking for models to be structured into layers and that all components are exploded. I sometimes have to open Sketchup and run an explode script to resolve issues with joined geometry.

Thankfully we are phasing out Sketchup and moving into Revit.

[OPEN_RANGE]

My experience has been I use sketchup as a template to model over. Too many messed up things and stuff like maybe railing is represented by a line versus a 3D object and other problems.

I usually ha e good luck with using Revit models. Import directly into max and choose combine by ,aterials seems to work best.

archicad is also ok but needs to be scaled up to real size or you can ask whoever made the model to do something on export. I can?t remember what it is but I found info on th internet. Helps a lot not to have to scale the whole thing to real world size.

all of these will have some glitches. Don?t trust Revit grass. Also terrain. Often needs to be re done

[theedge]

archicad is also ok but needs to be scaled up to real size or you can ask whoever made the model to do something on export. I can?t remember what it is but I found info on th internet. Helps a lot not to have to scale the whole thing to real world size.

Yes archicad only offers two options for unit export : millimeters and inches. In the export dialog where it says "Set drawing units to" just enter 1000 mm to have the model exported in meters, and then it will automatically import to scale in 3ds max.

But the way I manage archicad models is with the fantastic DIN3D plugin. The bad news is that it is no more developed....

[VelvetElvis]

To chime in, it's not that Revit or SketchUp is a bad program. It's purely on the user creating those files. I have received excellent files from both, but more often than not I receive pretty garbage files. It's to the point where we rarely use the Revit models that are being created in house. The teams creating them are really only using Revit to create construction docs, not 3D files for us.

This year at SketchUp Base Camp there is a excellent class called "10 Things I hate About Your SketchUp Model"

[OPEN_RANGE]

All excellent points. When I type on my ipad it can end up with lots of mistakes. the auto corrector sems to take too much control plus I'm not that good at it.

Above I meant to say do not trust Revit glass (versus grass). Lots of times like a sliding door will have one glass pane with normal flipped and other issues. hard to catch.