Phoenix Demo

[Archaine]

Is there a demo version of phoenix?

I am trying to create a nebula, and was thinking phoenix might be the way to go, I have attached an image of what I am trying to accomplish, if anyone can recommend a means that would be great. I am currently using Vray Environmental fog on displaced and shelled objects, but getting the look in the image is a monumental challenge.

The second pic is my first stab at it, spent two evenings playing around with it, again just a start.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, I am diving into something crazy here.


Archaine

[ivan.slavchev]

You can apply for a trial version of Phoenix (scroll to the bottom of the page for Phoenix) - https://www.chaosgroup.com/download-free-trials

[Archaine]

Thank you! I looked around, feel silly for not seeing it.

[Archaine]

Ok, so Phoenix seems like the way to go for the task at hand, I will have to play around with turning smoke into fire, and getting forces to be centralized around a single point, but I think it is doable.

I do not have access to the Phoenix Forum since I am working in demo mode at present, but I have a few questions after completing hours of tutorials.

1. PhoenixFD and exposure. I usually work with realistic exposure, ie. Vray sun with intensity of 1 and camera exposure at 200s for outdoor daytime scene. I noticed in the gasoline explosion tutorial, the sun is set to .02 (the old way to do things) and there is no camera exposure. I change the sun intensity to 1 and added exposure, smoke and ground looks good but light emitted by fire is now muted. What is the proper way to adjust PhoenixFD light emission for a given exposure. Do I play with Gamma Correction under atmosphere, or just increase the Fire Multiplier, or something else?

2. Does the volume of an emitter relate directly to the fire released? In the gasoline explosion tutorial there are the 3 fuel barrels, is the resulting explosion (with the final tutorial settings) realistic based on the barrel size, or is this just artistically estimated? I read over the fire source emit mode documentation several times, but it is unclear what gives the most realistic result. The docs talk about surface based release, and hint to this release being based on the object volume, is this correct?

3. Should Optimized atmos. evaluation be on for PhoenixFd simulation renders?


So far Phoenix is pretty awesome! I will continue tutorials and see if I can't produce a great nebula.

Thanks again.

Archaine


PS: is there any way to search a particular forum for key words, I tried searching "exposure" but it seemed to look across all forums and I only want to search phoenix forum.

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Hey,

1> Just boost the fire multiplier. A default Phoenix simulator has the Physically based option set to 1 and a pre-made curve that corresponds to realistic fire emission for the temperature used in the simulation (the Phoenix temperature is in Kelvins).

2> Phoenix is an artist's software in the first place. If something can be given a scientific notion without making the software less accessible, we do it. If there is something that can be represented in both the artist and scientific terms, artists perspective wins So, you have 3 emit modes:
- Surface force creates velocities along the normals of the emitter geometry. Anything this velocity manages to drag away from the geometry gets filled with matter.
- Volume Inject fills the volume of the emitter geometry with matter. It also adds pressure that creates realistic velocities since they the pressure gets plugged directly in the fluid solver. If you don't have the Inject Pressure animated for just one frame, but instead add pressure all the time, then the volume of the produced matter will get larger not only the larger the geometry's volume is, but also the higher the pressure is, since the emitter's volume will constantly get re-populated with matter once the pressure pushes it out.
- Volume Brush works by just gradually changing the grid values towards a desired value over time (or instantly, when the Effect is at 100%)

3> In some cases it helps, but don't expect too much from it If you want to optimize volumetric rendering, the Phoenix light cache speedup and the render step will be the greatest contributors to the volume itself, and you can also decrease the light resolution of Phoenix in order to speed up the illumination over the scene. You can also experiment with the Probabilistic shading from the Phoenix atmosphere properties.

Cheers!

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

... ah, sorry - yes, there is a way to search a particular forum only - check out the arrow next to the search bar.

[hammerbchen]

Hi,

I am working on a Nebula tutorial lately, here are some technics you might find useful:
1. Use particles (PFlow) as a source, and sim the smoke a few frames
2. Add a PhoenixFDTurbulence can give the smoke a hairy look, instead of rigid-looking
3. Use backlight for your lighting setup
4. You can get away with absorption looking for the smoke by using Based on smoke with a color gradient. In your case, can be a blue-yellow gradient.
5. Adjust the opacity of the smoke as you like
6. Use a wide-angle camera. It does affect the final looking of your rendering, a lot.


Best,

Hammer

[Archaine]

Svetlin, thanks for the Answers!

Hammerbchen, I will defiantly look at your approach, the result you are getting is right on target for a portion of what needs accomplished. Any chance you could up the project file.

I plan to use particles to create a scattering of suns throughout the nebula, and one superbright star for the main light or backlight.
I was also thinking to use a mesh result (or several) from a bubbly smoke sim as the outer gas shell of the shockwave with high transparency. (the light blue portion of the one I'm trying to emulate.)
My big challenge will be the streamers that appear off of the clumpy ball shaped elements. For those what do you think about a sphere emmitter that emits only from the faces that point to the center star, and a wind force applied to the smoke that is centered at the main star and pointing to the clump. problem here is I would need one for every clummpy ball, unless there is a way to script an omni directional wind or an omni reverse gravity force from a center point outwards?

I am trying to put exhibits together for a graphic novel, and I am preparing a kickstarter project to get funding(so I can get things like phoenix). It's a lot of work, I tried some effects after getting the demo, and then tried my hand at landscapes over the last week and the result is pretty good, I will attach a few. (The only part of the mech that is complete is the thigh, knee, and foot, the rest is just placeholders. (to quell bad reviews).

My phoenix demo ends tomorrow and I do not yet have what I need for the kickstarter, is there any way to prolong my demo for another month? I think I can tackle this nebula now. Hammerbchen has inspired me!


Thanks again!
Archaine

[Archaine]

Svetlin,

Can you put in a good word for me about getting my demo extended? I just emailed them with the request today, not sure if this is something they do.



Attached another sample, just tried my hand at an underwater scene.


Thanks!

Archaine

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Hey,

There are monthly rentals of Phoenix workstation licenses that should be quite affordable - check the bottom of the product page: https://www.chaosgroup.com/phoenix-fd/3ds-max

Also note that you can still use the Ocean texture and render Phoenix effects without a license - you can find more info here: https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/...xFDinanutshell

Cheers!

[Svetlin.Nikolov]

Also, first of all, please wait for a reply for the sales guys

[Archaine]

Happy news, I can continue for another month, am switching from water back to the Nebula now, so much to do.

Thanks for the info on the ocean tex, I noticed I could still use it for my underwater scenes. It is a vector, is there any method to get that converted into something a regular max displacement modifier on a mesh can use?
I know it has a non vector mode, but that does not match the vector result of course. The only solution I can think of is to render a Z-depth shot of a plane and generate a matching bump for the matchup.
(reason - trying to get the environmental fog to match the waves very closely and noticed that fog does not conform to a vray displaced object)

One last ocean sample before moving on.

Thanks again. Phoenix is Awsome!

Archaine

[georgi.zhekov]

Hey,
You can try to bake the z-depth indeed, though I'm not really sure that will give the best results.
Unfortunately I can't think of another way. Fingers crossed.

[hammerbchen]

Hi Archaine,

Here is the scene file and one rendered frame.

Best,

Hammer

[Archaine]

Hammerbchen,

Thank you so much!, that looks awsome! I was just about to jump into phoenix for the next stage.
I have spent the last 4 days of my life mastering the particle systems in Max and feel that I have pushed them as far as I can. So now I will go the way of the flaming bird.

If anyone has experience with large quantities of lights I would love any tips or warnings you may have.
Also what kind of scale should I be working in, the galaxies I'm showing started with a 500m ball of particles, and the final is about 200m diameter. Had to push the self illum material to the max and it still hardly illuminates, hence the addition of 1000 sphere lights.

Here's what I managed with just particles. I was up to about 800,000 in the flow. 4000 star particles, and 1000 vray lights instanced to 1 of every 4 stars.

Archaine