Why Vray?

[fgcity]

I have been using the Vray 1.46 for about 4-5 months now, untill now Vray has been unstable, if a scene is over about 3.5 mill polys the scene crashes, always there is a long time consuming problem creating irr maps for animations that are "Dead" , nothing moves, if there must be an animation with something moving the settings of the irr maps must be per frame, flickeing is a problem, there is no good tutorials on how to make an animation with moving object, (or i haven't found one) , if there is a scene with large scales there must be proxies to compensate for the 3.5 Mill polys, problems of crashing(and i am talking about P4 3.2 HT with 2 GB ram). I am not saying that Vray isn't a good renderer, sure it's good for a small room filled with detail, and single detailed objects, and the quality can be very Photorealistic. But can't someone make some tutorials on making a descent animation with complex geometries move and how to properly set up the GI?.

Please if someone can explain this things to me it would make my job allot easyer.

[DaftPunk]

I would think one way to get animation done would to light the scene as best as you can, so that even though GI may not be cast on an animated object or person, they look real enough and are anchored by a shadow to the point it realy doesnt matter.

[fgcity]

That's not a solution that would explain the GI render. If i have a Renderer that supports GI i want to do it as real as possible, otherwise i may just as well use Omnis

[RErender]

what version are you using?

[tom schuelke]

As said there´s no one solution to theese problems.

usualy animations with moving objects lead to lightchanges due every single frame.

if only smal things change , move, you might consider rendering in layers to compose them after the renderprocess, but if very much changes everywhere, the only solution to do the job, and flickerfree, and this means in each and every renderer on the world that uses GI, is to solve the Gi algorithms to a quality, that brings down noise to an acepable value.

this , and only this is the reason, why also in holywood, GI renderings still are not used so much for Films.

Now vray also with its unfinished version and still existing Bugs is for sure one of the by far fastest GI Renderers on Earth.

But you are right, its not easy to get a solution for your problem. On the other hand, having a fast GI renderer doesnt mean it is easy to make everything in GI.

Use for example Gi for parts of your animation and for example fake Gi solutions as for example e-light and others to combine what you need. GI is not allways needed, for the only thing that counts is the feeling of your immage.

Well good luck.


Tom

[Mark David]

Tom´s back finally....



We were missing you mate

Regards

Mark

[fgcity]

I have seen Hollywood pictures create fully Clean and flicker free renders, i think that flickering wouldn't be even a problem and a thing to waste time on, i would even sacrifice 2-3 minutes more for each frame if possible, but that's not the only case here, i have read in the forum that for large Scenes (larger than 3.5 Mil polys there is a solution to Colapse the stack, do proxies and other solutions. ) By mine opinion that is not a solution. I don' want to create a scene that would look beautiful and then just start deleting objects, optimizing, proxy replacing in order for it not to crach on a Farm. I have been using Vray for quite a while (more that 5 months) and since that time Vray 1.5 was promised. I haven't seen that happen, nither the main mistakes fixed, not even talking about the smaller ones, i think there are more posts in the "Bug" section than in "General" about this. Vray doesn't support half of the featues in max (Like Video Post, Volume Light e.t.c) Ofcourse there are ways to simulate "Some" of these things but not all and not to a point that it would satisfy anyone. Also bumping, opasity and others things are quite a mess after render. So does anyone have a solution about this general problems?

EG: I have a small village, about 50 houses. I want to create an animation of a SLOW fly through the village with cars moving, people walking and talking. The scene (Raw and without animated parts is about 8 Mill Poys)

My question is: Can i make this animation in Vray and what would be the most optimum way to do it.

[RErender]

Since you are a registered user I would suggest continuing the discussion in the main forum. Posting here leaves doubts...

[trixian]

I have seen Hollywood pictures create fully Clean and flicker free renders, i think that flickering wouldn't be even a problem and a thing to waste time on, i would even sacrifice 2-3 minutes more for each frame if possible, but that's not the only case here, i have read in the forum that for large Scenes (larger than 3.5 Mil polys there is a solution to Colapse the stack, do proxies and other solutions. ) By mine opinion that is not a solution. I don' want to create a scene that would look beautiful and then just start deleting objects, optimizing, proxy replacing in order for it not to crach on a Farm. I have been using Vray for quite a while (more that 5 months) and since that time Vray 1.5 was promised. I haven't seen that happen, nither the main mistakes fixed, not even talking about the smaller ones, i think there are more posts in the "Bug" section than in "General" about this. Vray doesn't support half of the featues in max (Like Video Post, Volume Light e.t.c) Ofcourse there are ways to simulate "Some" of these things but not all and not to a point that it would satisfy anyone. Also bumping, opasity and others things are quite a mess after render. So does anyone have a solution about this general problems?

EG: I have a small village, about 50 houses. I want to create an animation of a SLOW fly through the village with cars moving, people walking and talking. The scene (Raw and without animated parts is about 8 Mill Poys)

My question is: Can i make this animation in Vray and what would be the most optimum way to do it.

Have you ever tried to set up scenes for rib archiving with renderman? That's what a lot of those big studios use. They often have special people doing only technical clean-up of scenes, to make them render in reasonable time. Anyway, how would exporting the houses to vr-meshes be a hassle? Its close to automated.

[cpnichols]

I have seen Hollywood pictures create fully Clean and flicker free renders

Really? What movies? Being someone that works at a large and reputable VFX company, I would love to know what films have used full blown GI, not baked, no Rib-archieving, no tricks. I would say, if it WAS done with no "tricks," the people are really stupid and have way to much money to through away on CPU hours, or they have some other trick up their sleave that are not telling you about it.

[percydaman]

im afraid optimizing is here to stay. Its been done for ages (reflection maps?) and aint going anywhere soon. Using vrayproxies for certain objects is most definitely a solution, and while not to call you stupid, but if your unwilling to perform some of these solutions, then you've made your bed, go sleep in it...

[Trapezium]

I have seen Hollywood pictures create fully Clean and flicker free renders, i think that flickering wouldn't be even a problem and a thing to waste time on, i would even sacrifice 2-3 minutes more for each frame if possible

Not to shoot Chris down but yes Shrek 2 being one movie that used GI they still resorted to only one bounce which is a form of optimization (not sure if this can be considered full blown GI though). None-the-less, any type of interpolated GI will require tweaking as interpolation is a base for optimization in the case of GI. If you can only afford another 2-3 min per frame you may want to spend some time learning to optimize or fake GI because you're not going to like the render times for brute force alone.

VRay is a fast raytracer which handles many polygons but helping it along isn't unexpected compared to other rendering engines.

I have a suggestion for you if you'll post in the registered forum as it's only a feature availible in VRay Advanced.

--Jon

[cpnichols]

Not to shoot Chris down but yes Shrek 2 being one movie that used GI they still resorted to only one bounce which is a form of optimization (not sure if this can be considered full blown GI though).

Well PDI's technique was fairly unique. I am sure they had some sort of archiveiving technique, and to top it all off, they have a proprietary rendering engine that is only available to them. I would not consider it full blown GI (although pretty close), and it is FAR from plug and play. It is, nonetheless, fairly impressive, and the envy of many studios.

[Da_elf]

there was 1 shot in reign of fire that used animation with GI and vray. hehehe. 1 tiny tine shot with 1 cg character hehe.
hmmm. lets see. im working on a 35 unit community right now with 5 million polys in the scene. seems to render well and ive still got more to add. i think my most was 80 million polys a while back on a 5 floor condo. so you see high poly renders are possible

[Trapezium]

Yes, and even that shot you mentioned only used primary bounce also

--Jon