Ref: Cadmonkey33, VRfMax vs VRfSU vs mRfMax; Everyone please chip in !

[Macho3001]

Cadmonkey,

I learnt from your post at the 'Glossy Effecs' thread in the General forum that you use VRfMax. As it so happens, I've been using mRfMax (the built-in Mental Ray render engine in Max). Yet, both of us are here, exploring this wonderful rendering engine for Sketchup. I wanted to discuss with you a few workflow related questions which may benefit everyone using VRay on Sketchup. Everyone else, please do also chip in with your thoughts...

I'd like to know your reasons for exploring the vRfSU platform; The reasons of my planning the 'switchover' from the established big boy app Max + mR platform are: -

1. Modeling & Model editing: (Advantage Sketchup)- Max has a cumbersome Modifier Stack related workflow wherein even small modeling/ editing changes require a lengthy & tedious process, involving (at least 50) different modifiers working at levels of vertex, segment, polygon & face (element). modeling/ Editing in SU is a breeze with the easy tools like push/pull, f/me, and supplemented with some really great rubies. Sketchup is built from the ground up to be easy to model.

2. Model handling/viewing (Advantage SU): ++ Max just can't beat the model handling and viewing modes of SU. Techies at Max are working their a*** out to mimic the 'gravity-based' middle button drag capability of SU added to the shift-drag pan mode, but (despite their viewcube, view control panel et al enhancements which they've incorporated in the 2009 versions) haven't been able to come anywhere near the ease-of-handling models that's SU's forte.

3. Proximity to Realism (Advantage VRay): This I'm mentioning from my personal experience with the Mental Ray Rendering Engine. vRay provides better tonal quality than mR renders which I feel are 'too' digital, sharp & somewhat dead looking. Vray images have a distinct stamp, are softer and more closer to the 'real' feel.

Having said all that, I'm not advocating SU+vRay AGAINST Max+(vR or mR) ; & I'm not getting paid to say this, lol;

These are my personal thoughts. i'd like if we all can highlight the Plus ( & Minus) points of both the packages so as to be able to get the best from all platforms.

A free & open discussion from all users (especially the experienced) is highly solicited.

Macho

[Free Agent_cg]

Re: Ref: Cadmonkey33, VRfMax vs VRfSU vs mRfMax; Everyone please chip in !

did anyone notice he said f/me.... hehehehhhhuhuhhhehehehehe (bevis)

sketchup's awsome thats why this site exists (technically) ease of use and navigation being its best qualities... my only gripes would be its inability to suppose hipoly meshes effectivly, but this is better discussed in the sketchup forums...
VRfSU u guys are doing a great job at improving a very sticky program, if it werent for u i would have moved on to lifless programs like Rhino (thats a joke before any of u rhino heads jump down my throat

Note: Autodisys (or however u spell that) the makers of FormZ are about to release Bonzai3D which is heavily influenced by sketchup's ease of use, however supports nurbs and other transformation controls and... wait for it.... wait for it.... hipoly capabilies.

I hope you ASGVis guys are getting in line for production of Vray for Bonzai3D

[cadmonkey33]

Re: Ref: Cadmonkey33, VRfMax vs VRfSU vs mRfMax; Everyone please chip in !

well, im probably the wrong person to ask as im a total max fanboy .

i work for a large architects with 300 people using autocad. the reason we use sketchup is that a cad tech with no 3d experience can pick it up very quickly.
as we mostly produce massing models, the default viewport output of sketchup does the job.
obviously, for the occasions where we'd like a better quality output, it makes sense to have vray to quickly knock up a half-decent render.

but then for the occasions where we want very high quality output, it gets given to me, and i do it in max, with vray.

to be honest, i really don't like sketchup ;D

i'll give my opinions on the points you raised:

1: Modelling.
sketchup makes making easy things easier. period.
try modelling a realistic car, or a character, or a tree.
subdivision surfaces are a standard feature of all high end 3d packages for a reason.
with editable poly and the occasional modifier in max i can create any shape i like easily and it remains fully editable.
sketchup does handle cad drawings very well though. i have to make sure i only import what i need in max or the viewport speed goes to hell.

2: Navigation.
the first thing any respectable user of max does after they've installed the program is turn off the viewcube. it's crap and pointless.
all you need is pan and rotate. i can get anywhere i like in my scene in max with no problems.
also moving/scaling/rotating objects in max is easy with the transform gizmo.
i find sketchup navigation irritating, and i keep getting stuck in walls. :P

3: Realism.
well. a good artist can get great results from any software. i remember seeing a video of a guy freehand draw and render a car in microsoft paint. haha. it looked sweet.
but then im not that good an artist, and im also not a physicist, which you seem to need to be to get good results from mental ray.
vray gets me good result fast. and thats all i can ask really.

4: Animation.
erm. yeah. that'll have to be done in max then...

don't get me wrong, i totally see the good points of sketchup, but for someone with lots of experience with a highend 3d package, there are few advantages.

[dalomar_cg]

Re: Ref: Cadmonkey33, VRfMax vs VRfSU vs mRfMax; Everyone please chip in !

I hope you ASGVis guys are getting in line for production of Vray for Bonzai3D

Hmmm...considering the currently nonexistent user base of FormZ, I'm not sure how much attention it will get from us. Also, new platforms are a hard sell for several reasons. First, the tend to not have a very stable user base, and don't gain one very quickly. People don't pick up, switch, or buy software at the drop of a hat unless it really shows them something that they desperately need or doesn't exist anywhere else. The softwares that do grow like wild fire are an anomoly really, and the ones that even grow are not too common in and of themselves. From your 2 second description it sounds like its too similar to stuff thats already out there. Second, new platforms tend to have a less than robust SDK (or don't have one at all). This what we really need to do anything. The SDK in SU sucks and we are constantly fighting with it. Its very limiting and you guys are seeing this day in/day out (whether you know it or not).

As you know, I could go on and on, so I'll just leave it at that.