Reducing polygons on branches - Bark material - Dusk/Night Render Settings

[Nelsta21]

All,

I first want to say hello to all that read or may evetually benefit from this post though I will note this is a very specific issue I am about to inquire for help upon. I will be asking three questions in this post. Please if you can give any insight on any one of these issue please chime in!! Thank you all ahead of time...

Background: I am working to build a very detailed tree model that is to replicate identically an actual fake tree. Now that may sound strange but yes, I need to model what a faux tree made from steel and fiber glass will look like. I am working with branches that I have created, each to replicate the fiberglass and plastic branches made for this application. i have 4, 6, and 8 foot branches and branches have an average of 74 leaf clusters on them. Each of these cluster containing 3 leafs on them. So we are talking about an average of around 222 individual leafs on these branches, then i need 40-60 branches depending. This is an insane amount of polygons for a model. I have been unseccessful in modeling it in its entirety with the setup i have, which btw isnt horrible. The file size is over 1.7GB's... now that is just a little rediculous. I run out of RAM with 8GB running 64 bit windows 7. I need to know how to get this file size reduced without loosing the detail required. Take a look at the branch I have modeled to get an idea of what I am talking about.


Questions:

1. How can I model this in a different way? I dont know if I can use texture mapping because I may not get the right lighting and plastic affect I require? Or is that me assuming with ignorance? I have taken a very exact approach. I am trying to model with as few polygons as possible but these are somewhat complex shapes. How can I reduce polygon count on these shapes so I can render it without crashing hard!

2. I need to create a bark material. I have had issues applying a jpeg as a texture. When applying a texture to a very long cylinder (tree trunk) with a simple image are there any hints you can give me? What is the process for building a new material like bark? My largest issue is I have been getting stretching or tiling of the image instead of a flawless bark material. Really I am new to creating a complex material and applying it so some specific guidance to how to apply it to a long cylinder and the correct settings for that application would be greatly appreciated.

3. I need help in setting up an outdoor night render. I attempted to follow the instructions in the vray manual but cannot get it to perform for me at all. if anyone can provide a step by step way to make an outdoor night scene at dusk that would be great. I place the sun and the entire environment goes blue on me the later I set the time of day? At this point I think it is best if I get someones settings instead of explaining all the details of mine to ascertain the issue.


I know I may have broken some form of etiquette by asking three different questions within a post so also please inform me if I need to break this up into multiple posts? I am new to teh forum and to Vray so please be easy on me folks!

Most appreciated,

Ryan

[Nelsta21]

An addition.... I cant seem to upload an image. The FAQ states there should be a manage attachments tab to click on during your post in order to upload documents within the post. This was not teh case. If anyone can help with that as well I can share some images that may give you a better idea of what I am looking for in my inquerry.

Cheers,

Ryan

[Neilg]

use this - http://imgur.com/

it's pretty hard to help you out without seeing how you've been modeling it at the moment, and there's no problem with asking 3 questions in one post!

[ledisnomad]

Nelstra21,

First, are you using Rhino v4 or v5? For something this detailed, I'd definitely go with v5. Then you might also try the beta of the new V-Ray for Rhino. It supports proxies, so you can model each branch, then save it as a proxy and bring it back in for rendering. That should make both modeling and rendering much more efficient.

[fpedrogo]

For the mapping issue, you will have to use uv unwrap tool. Rhino 5 allows you to do this in a basic way or you can use 3d max or any standalone software like Unfold3D ( http://www.polygonal-design.fr/e_unfold/index.php )
For the Night shop I recommend you use a night HDRI. If you have the new beta, you can use dome light and place a night HDRI on it for perfect night IBL setup and then use additional V-Ray light for the artificial lights .

Best

[Micha_cg]

Maybe a problem: proxy destroy the texture coordinates by a bug, so it's no way for textures objects yet. But I would try to use the official Vray and blocks and premeshed geometry. So, the file size should be much lower and the RAM usage too.

http://www.chaosgroup.com/forums/vbu...-to-save-RAM-)

[Nelsta21]

I am using Rhino v4... I understand that there seems to be a bug with the proxy feature as Micha has mentioned but I am still curious about this. If you dont mind, what is a proxy and how does it function.

Thank you

[Nelsta21]

Do mean I can place an image over the dome light and that will project a night lighting?? Can I do this on the standard light options in Vray?

Thanks

[Nelsta21]

Maybe a problem: proxy destroy the texture coordinates by a bug, so it's no way for textures objects yet. But I would try to use the official Vray and blocks and premeshed geometry. So, the file size should be much lower and the RAM usage too.

Please explain a little further if you could. What are you referring to with "official Vray and blocks and premeshed geometry"?

[Micha_cg]

I mean, don't use the beta, use the last full release.

Blocks ... best type in the command line "block" and press F1, the Rhino help explain a lot. Short conclusion: per block you can save parts of your model to the HDD. If you load this part to Rhino as Block (insert instead import) and set at "link" mode, than this part isn't saved at your current file, only the information from where it is loaded and where it is placed (scaled, rotated, ..) at your current file. So, your current file can show hundred times the same branches, but the file size is only a few kB. During rendering it save some RAM too.

Proxy ... you can save parts of your scene as mesh to the HDD and at Rhino a light wight placehold is shown only. Now you place hundred of copies of this proxy object and Vray will load the full model at render time. It will be a hugh RAM saver.

[ledisnomad]

Since you are using Rhino v4 (and therefore V-Ray 1.05?), you cannot use dome light or proxies. Those are only available in Rhino v5 with V-Ray 1.5.

Using blocks would definitely help. As for the night scene, you can still use a night image even without the dome light. You can add it in as an environment map. Here's the section on Environment Lighting in the manual: http://www.vray.com/vray_for_rhino/m...ironment_light

[Nelsta21]

To all of those that have given some input,

I really appreciate all the. This is where I stand right now. Not knowing about the block command makes me feel quite silly. I have been using Rhino for a couple years and to not know about that simple functions is a little embarrassing, but then again there is tons I do not know. Looks like I will have to rebuild each leaf to have a one factor greater u and v than the degree. That coupled with the block command should do the trick. I just tried rendering the compiled tree with the more complex geometry branch blocks and ran out of memory and crashed... SO I REALLY HOPE that if i simplify the geometry a bit more (though takes from the detail) I should be OK. We shall see after some hours put into refoliating some branches with the more simple leafs. So thanks for the help on reducing the geometry and file size all!!

Now onto the next concerns I am still fighting with...

I really could use some information on how to make a bark material from a picture. If I take a high res photo of some bark, then want it to look as much like that photo as possible when added to the trunk what do I need to do that does not involve purchasing any additional software. fpedrogo suggested 3D unfold but that costs some money... I know there has to be a way to make vray place this material around a long cylinder. If anyone could give some specifics on this that would be great. I have added the material as both a bump and texture map on a cylinder and I get some funky results. What would you guys do to make a barked trunk of a tree??

[Nelsta21]

(To all of those that have given some input,

I really appreciate all the. ) I meant to finish that sentence!! I appreciate all the support! Thanks guys

[Micha_cg]

I really could use some information on how to make a bark material from a picture. If I take a high res photo of some bark, then want it to look as much like that photo as possible when added to the trunk what do I need to do that does not involve purchasing any additional software. fpedrogo suggested 3D unfold but that costs some money... I know there has to be a way to make vray place this material around a long cylinder. If anyone could give some specifics on this that would be great. I have added the material as both a bump and texture map on a cylinder and I get some funky results. What would you guys do to make a barked trunk of a tree??

Please post an image how the trunk is looking.

[Nelsta21]

Ok,

After a crazy work week I want to get back to figuring some of this out.... Here is the fake foliage piece along with it arrayed on a fake branch. This is then arrayed onto a tree. I am looking to be able to do anywhere from 45 - 80 branches. This branch gets larger as it increases in size.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Ok I took the advise of some of you and I have blocked my foliage, then placed it on the branch. Then I blocked the branches in placed them on the tree. The file size is manageable at around 25 MB but the RAM required is insane and I crash non stop trying to render it. I need to have the ability to render even larger fake trees than I am now and just am running into a hardware issue. Any other tips on reducing RAM required for rendering?? I am using very simple flat colors for the branches and foliage...?

I am going to also ask here and in a new thread about hardware required to do renderings with such a large amount of repeated block instances. My company wants this to happen so they are looking to invest in a high performance machine to be able to handle these file sizes and renderings. I will ask here due to having the dialogue already begun regarding my situation. What are my optimal hardware options. i7 Sandy bridge processor, NVidia Quadro 4000 GFX, 64 bit OS (with how much RAM??)

To those of you that are professionals: What systems are you using... the company wont go for a random build, need to figure out where to get a machine I can customize to these high hardware specifications. Please recommend something I have to get a budget together by tomorrow!