Displacement Workflow question(s)

[Vincit]

Hello,

First i understand that at the moment Uv mapping is not supported but from what I can tell the "Ocean texture shader" is working as a displacement on ocean surfaces.

However I would like to know more about the workflow as how this texture might be used as a displacement to add detail to a large body liquid sim which is not in "ocean mesh", as an example a 200 meter by 200 of a grid sim of a section of a sea shore with crashing waves, I would like to add the ocean texture on the liquid to add that extra detail, but how is this approached? i know you could add this in first in the "displacement" parameter of the grid, however from a few tests this is not producing render time displacements on the liquid? or should it? I later tried adding a Vray displacement modifier on top of the liquid, but that produced some random results according to which method i set, "subdivision" method seemed to work better but it was still producing artifacts in places and i haven't tested how this would work in a rendered animated sequence, is this a correct approach? what is the over all workflow for something of this sort?

Thanks again,

[Vincit]

Also one more question (didn't want to start a new thread for it..)

How come a small box like this fill up an entire area with more water than it holds?

The box is animated with discharge for a single frame.

here are screenshots and settings:


Thanks,

[Vincit]

seems the image didn't work, here's another try sorry.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ev90fr.jpg

[Ivaylo Katev]

Hi,
the uv mapping is still supported, but is useless and will be not supported anymore.
the displacement works in all modes of rendering, regardless ocean or closed mesh. the most common issue working with the ocean texture is the incorrect scene scale, that leads to inappropriate wind value of the ocean texture. keep in mind that the manual wave adjustment is unexpectedly hard, so we strongly recommend to adjust the waves using only the wind speed.
better see this tutorial , the most important points are explained here https://vimeo.com/95120186

[Vincit]

Thanks Ivaylo,

That was a helpful tutorial, but it doesnt say anything if it could be applied onto a liquid sim surface not the ocean types, that was my initial question.

As for my second question below with the image attached, regarding the small box creating so much liquid what are your thoughts on that?

[Ivaylo Katev]

i suppose your problem is related to the texture settings, not to the way how you apply it.
you can render liquid in ocean,mesh,cap,or implicit surface mode. the first three methods are mesh based, the last one is procedural geometry. all of them are affected by the ocean texture when you simply put it into the displacement slot and enable the displacement. actually did you enable it?
about the second question - such a problem is usualy caused by too low spf value. it also helps if you use forward transfer advection method instead the classic one. try with spf=10, forward transfer, smooth conservation

[Vincit]

Hi Ivaylo,

Yes i enabled it but not all of them gave me render time displacements, the mesh based one was simply using the available geometry count of the mesh and deforming that instead of adding more detail in render time. i will try again though.

I tried what you said regarding the liquid and set it to forward transfer plus spf of 10, but the liquid behaves very strangely now and it flies upward. I have attached the simple sample file if you have the time to look at it and try for yourself.

Link: https://db.tt/phYpEq5M

By the way sorry if i am bombarding this thread with lots of questions lately, we are looking forward to investing into a liquid sim solution for upcoming projects and would like to make phoenix work for our needs and these tests are helpful to determine that, and your help continues to be most valuable.

[Ivaylo Katev]

now i understand what you are complaining about. i was wrongly thinking that no displacement appears at all. but you mean only the existing vertices are replaced and no details smaller than the faces are possible to see. yes, really the mesh is subdivided only if ocean extension is required. initially this was by design, but now we can consider it a bug. we will fix it. for now you can workaround it using the vray displacement, of course you have to disable the displacement in the render panel.

[tashko.zashev]

Hi,

We did some adjustments to your scene to your setup and the final simulation result is now stable.
Generally we have increased the SPF to 10, Advection method to Forward, Wetting disabled..

Here is the max file:
sample01.zip

[Vincit]

Sorry I can't download the attachment due to lack of permission in the forum?

[tashko.zashev]

Do you use the Demo Phoenix version? If you have purchased Phoenix license, please send request to support@chaosgroup.com to update your forum account.

I have uploaded the file on the FTP File

[Vincit]

Thanks tashko yes, we have not purchased phoenix yet we are evaluating it to understand how it would suit our needs to make our choices according to our pipeline, thanks for the ftp I will check it out.

[tashko.zashev]

Thank you for informing me. If you have any questions regarding the setup feel free to ask.

[Vincit]

Hi Tashko,

Ok tried your scene i have a few questions about it:

1 - first i have attached a small video here of the preview of that scene, as you can see the liquid (which is supposed to be water) is behaving strange and slow and seems to "dry" out fast, https://db.tt/ZpicEv8o

2 - I had a look at this tutorial here which is a very similar case: http://vimeo.com/95118032 in this case he is not having the same previous issue of continuous fill up at all and it behaves correctly even with the previous method assigned which is symmetric and classic modes on, with wetting on as well.

maybe i should try this again on a simpler scene from scratch and see if that works.

Meanwhile what are your thoughts on it? by the way my scene scale and all is correct its not too large of a scene its like a bucket of water.

will keep you posted.

Thanks for your time!

[Ivaylo Katev]

symmetric and classic are not to blame, when the spf is high enough, they also keep the liquid quantity. in such cases we recommend ft just because it conserves the liquid by its nature, so you can switch back to them keeping high spf. however, the wetting is the real problem. what happens? your geometry is moving, keep in mind that phoenix is not a praticle simulator, it's a grid based and when you have wet geometry, it is represented in the grid as cells marked to be water. when the geometry changes its position, these cells remain at their place and become real water. in few words, the movement of wet geometry produces water.
the usual solution is to use a container locked to the geometry, this is described here. however, it will not work in your case, because you have another geometry, that remains. in all cases you have moving geometry. nevertheless you can try it, because the other case may look better.