Stormy seas

[Nkal]

Hello,

I would like to discuss on how to go about achieving strong stormy seas with Phoenix,

Version: 2,2 currently using nightly builds.

The issue i constantly face is that i would like to use phoenix ocean tex to displace the surface while at the same time having it influence the liquid surface simulation creating foam and splashes and interactions with other objects from large waves, (similar to the turbulance helper for phoenix) but intead of just procedural noise a texture input? at this stage displacements are only working as a simple add on render time only, this causes issues with foam previously created on simulation level and when larger waves come in, the foam and splashes aren't influenced at all and sometimes end up lost beneath them or floating above them in the air, which doesn't help on anything with slightly larger or deeper waves involved.

Is there a way to displace the surface of the ocean with Ocean tex or even custom maps for further control?

Lastly i've been trying the latest flip solver, it is a great boost in flexibility speed and predictability, perhaps this solver plus some kind of a wave generator could be best for such kind of simulations?

Thanks,

[Ivaylo Katev]

the standard technique used in the fx studios regardless of the simulator software is to create the animated sea surface geometry and to put thin layer of water above it. this technique requires a lot of work, so we are planning to add some automation in the next release. if you are not in rush you can wait for it, or you can try to use the standard technique.

[Nkal]

the standard technique used in the fx studios regardless of the simulator software is to create the animated sea surface geometry and to put thin layer of water above it. this technique requires a lot of work, so we are planning to add some automation in the next release. if you are not in rush you can wait for it, or you can try to use the standard technique.

Thanks, I did try the suggested method of putting a moving sea object underneath, this was not much possible with the older solvers , flip seems to be much better at preserving the shape and the liquid is mostly stable, but I have yet to try to put a displacement map on top of it to simulate ocean crests and pinching among other rendertime detail for the surface, i am not sure if this would work with a container body of water. haven't tried simulating an ocean mesh with the flip solver will try that soon.

Thanks.

[Ivaylo Katev]

the problem here is that vray displacement works only rendertime, the max displacement does not support vector mode, and phoenix does not keep the same vertex count for all the frames.
the vertex count of an animated geometry must be preserved in order to make possible the velocity calculation. unfortunately the max meshes do not have velocity info channel and this is the only way to handle the local velocity.

[vlado]

Actually the latest nightlies of V-Ray 3 allow you to use a mapping channel with velocity information for motion blur. Ivaylo, you can probably use that fact with Phoenix.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Ivaylo Katev]

@vlado - actually we need real change of the geometry, not just the velocity
@Nkal - i think i found some promising way. you can use the max displacement modifier over a plane with many segments, using phoenix ocean map in h-map mode (uncheck the vector mode option)

[Da_elf]

problem i found with a displacement method is that the motion blur goes up and down. but a wave is a body of water moving horizontally until it reaches the shore

[Ivaylo Katev]

interesting question, the wave is moving horizontally but the water itself is moving vertically, how must the correct motion blur looks like
i think both the motion blurs should look equally.

[Da_elf]

i guess in deep water its only an up and down motion as seen with wave monitors, it would only be closer to shore when the wave breaks that the water is really considered to be moving forward.

[Ivaylo Katev]

yes, it's something like that

[Nkal]

Just dropping in on this tread again since 2016 came out for max and maya, it was interesting to see the new Bifrost feature in Maya doing exactly what we were trying to achieve while discussing about in here, that would be great artistic control if we could have something like that implemented in phoenix for us max users in the future.

I like how the foam at 3:50 on the wave edges is twirling and swirling in a nice exaggerated way it is good control over all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZNAsq5m0c

At the moment i am going to test houdini ocean in max and try to have a foam map via a shader or pre-baked texture drive the emitting particles on those edges, just to sell the illusion as much as possible of heavy foam and splashes, since all other methods haven't been too friendly so far and are much too heavy for larger surfaces.

I also dislike houdini ocean's tiling which is much too evident, it would be great if something like this ocean mesh could be looked into in the future if you guys are interested but with better ocean tiles and randomization closer to Dreamscape's ocean mesh i would say when it is camera view dependent.

[Dumps]

Hi,
Just wanted to check if there is a solution or workaround to getting the foam to undulate with the larger waves displaced by oceanTex displacement as Nkal mentions?
Is this something available in the nightly buidls now and if it is how would I go about getting them?
Thanks

[flipbook]

It is in the nightly builds using an oceanTex map and the Wave Force helper To get the nightly build you have to request it via support email.

[Ivaylo Katev]

flipbook is faster, yes it's in the nightlies for max, this video is demonstrating it

[Dumps]

Thank you both, I'll request it now.
Are the nightlies stable enough to do production work on?