Vray... we need to talk

[LouisRyko]

I regret buying V-ray for Rhino.

I waited 2+ years for V-ray 3 for Rhino. Which means I held on for 2+ years not making the switch to 3D Studio Max and a far superior version of V-ray... Or Corona... Or Octane...

I'm finally on my own freelancing and made the big mistake of sticking with and recently purchasing V-ray for Rhino.

The latest 'official' release is total BS. I don't think I need to write the long list of problems (of all varieties) as I'm sure you're all too familiar with them. It's borderline unusable at times. An obviously rushed product, sub-par, ill considered and a pain in the ass to use in it's current form.

Goodbye Rhino my friend, you'll be sadly missed. This month is Trial month of 3DS Max and Corona. Good riddance V-ray.

[mgibeault]

That's a strange post...
It's your first post in this forum, you joined yesterday, you don't mention a single problem and you have already made up your mind...
I think there's improvements to be made to V-Ray for Rhino, mainly in the user interface and how a few advanced settings are presented, but we gained so much useful stuff...

[Micha]

On the other side, I'm one of the oldest VfR user and was not surprised to read something like this (OK, some words are hard and I would interpret it as deep frustration). Right, there are a lot of useful new stuff, but quite a lot of bugs are not fixed and old, simple features are lost. Was it not a rushed release?

General I think, switching to 3dsmax will not be a good choice (from what I read at the Off-Topic). A lot people try to leave 3dsmax. If VfR could be improved and finalized soon, than it could be a good option for this users (for example for one man freelancers). The combination of Vray and Rhino could be fantastic, if the quality problem is solved and some expert options find back again. What I'm missing at VfR is that the old pro users get more attention again. So, the core is great, the plugin looks promising - let's go and finalized it.

I hope chaosgroup will not ignore users like Louis, because feedback helps to estimate the current situation at the users side. Other users simple go without any post.

[sheehan_partners_nm]

What are the problems with vray for rhino? We are planning to upgrade soon, should we wait?

[mgibeault]

On the other side, I'm one of the oldest VfR user and was not surprised to read something like this (OK, some words are hard and I would interpret it as deep frustration). Right, there are a lot of useful new stuff, but quite a lot of bugs are not fixed and old, simple features are lost. Was it not a rushed release?

General I think, switching to 3dsmax will not be a good choice (from what I read at the Off-Topic). A lot people try to leave 3dsmax. If VfR could be improved and finalized soon, than it could be a good option for this users (for example for one man freelancers). The combination of Vray and Rhino could be fantastic, if the quality problem is solved and some expert options find back again. What I'm missing at VfR is that the old pro users get more attention again. So, the core is great, the plugin looks promising - let's go and finalized it.

I hope chaosgroup will not ignore users like Louis, because feedback helps to estimate the current situation at the users side. Other users simple go without any post.

Yes Micha, I agree completely.
My answer was because he never posted a single comment or complaint here so we, and most important Chaosgroup, will never know what was so bad with his experience with V-Ray for Rhino. Maybe it's the same things as you, maybe it's a specific problem we never encountered...

[aaouviz]

Interesting topic

I'm also feeling frustrated. I know my studiomates are too. I think besides the obvious bugs in V4R (see below) there are major shortcomings which might attract someone, like myself, to move away from Rhino:
- No 'Slate Style' material editor,
- No decent animation support (especially for animated proxies),
- Limited (almost no!) Rhino online assets for purchase. (It's also more or less impossible to reliably import max materials into V4R when I do purchase something from Evermotion, for example).

Micha, "A lot people try to leave 3dsmax" - this is interesting. Why? As a rhino user I can see why 3DS max is a horrible program, but with the aforementioned points and huge selection of truly amazing render engines (Corona, fstorm, octane) and plug-ins, I don't see a mass of users leaving 3dsmax any time soon. If I truly wanted my render quality to improve a level or two or three(!) this would be my first step.

My grievances (so far);
- I press render and go to chrome (or any other program) to browse; only to have the VFB appear on top suddenly, so I close it. It reappears soon after, close again, then it reappaears for a 3rd and final time. It dominates the screen and continually readjusts its size.
- The bloom + glare is still completely buggy - sometimes refuses to work saying channel not rendered. 'Intensity' doesnt work at all
- The visible buckets when rendering with swarm is a problem
- No prompt when copying in an existing material - end up with many duplicate materials - horrible for library asset management
- Crashes when switching to/from GPU/CPU renderinng
- Cannot do batch renders properly as the depth of field isnt auto like it used to be
- Occasionally get 'locked' in material editor when editing a texture (back button doesnt work)
- After a big render Vray/Rhino doesn't close properly when I shut down my PC - this means all my rhino default UI is reset everytime I re-open Rhino
- Many many instances of 'vray nuei' in task manager - what is this? Shouldn't I get 2 instances of this total?
- Explorer pop-up for BMP file section always appears behind vray asset browser - incredibly annoying
- I don't know if anyone else has this issue; but using commandline shortcuts doesn't work about 50% of the time, I have to click in the command line for Rhino to understand that I want to type something. Sometimes this takes multiple 'clicks' its as if there is an invisible window ontop (i heavily suspect vray to be the offender here) of rhino taking preference.
- The system behind the VFB rememebering the Corrections Controls is not understood. Does it remember the last used settings, does it remember based on files? This causes major problems as I render once on job 'A', later render on job 'B' with exposure adjusted, then when I do a re-render on job 'A' it has different settings to the first render
- Right clicking on a material in the list makes it 'active' but isn't highlighted - this is confusing!
- Mateial UI; Apply to layer is still incredibly difficult to use!
- VFB randomly saves all render elements when only one was asked to be saved - this is random and I am yet to figure out what triggers this
- region render fails if i have previously done a visrenderblowup
- if i do region render and close rhino + vray, the next time I open rhino + render the red region square is visible but not in use

I don't know if anyone else is experiencing any or all of these issues; but I personally use Vray for Rhino on average about 14 hours a day, 6 days a week - all these little kinks make for a frustrating workflow!

[mnewberg]

Thank you for making this list, we will use it when planning for the next service release of V-Ray 3.X for Rhino.

I would like some more feedback on a few more items you mentioned.

- No decent animation support (especially for animated proxies),

What is the work flow you are looking to achieve with proxies and animation?

- The visible buckets when rendering with swarm is a problem

Can you describe these visible buckets and how this is an issue?

[sheehan_partners_nm]

I personally use Vray for Rhino on average about 14 hours a day, 6 days a week - all these little kinks make for a frustrating workflow!

As a side joke, don't work 14 hours a day mate! That's insane...

[Grigio18]

Interesting topic

My grievances (so far);
- I press render and go to chrome (or any other program) to browse; only to have the VFB appear on top suddenly, so I close it. It reappears soon after, close again, then it reappaears for a 3rd and final time. It dominates the screen and continually readjusts its size.
- The bloom + glare is still completely buggy - sometimes refuses to work saying channel not rendered. 'Intensity' doesnt work at all
- The visible buckets when rendering with swarm is a problem
- No prompt when copying in an existing material - end up with many duplicate materials - horrible for library asset management
- Crashes when switching to/from GPU/CPU renderinng
- Cannot do batch renders properly as the depth of field isnt auto like it used to be
- Occasionally get 'locked' in material editor when editing a texture (back button doesnt work)
- After a big render Vray/Rhino doesn't close properly when I shut down my PC - this means all my rhino default UI is reset everytime I re-open Rhino
- Many many instances of 'vray nuei' in task manager - what is this? Shouldn't I get 2 instances of this total?
- Explorer pop-up for BMP file section always appears behind vray asset browser - incredibly annoying
- I don't know if anyone else has this issue; but using commandline shortcuts doesn't work about 50% of the time, I have to click in the command line for Rhino to understand that I want to type something. Sometimes this takes multiple 'clicks' its as if there is an invisible window ontop (i heavily suspect vray to be the offender here) of rhino taking preference.
- The system behind the VFB rememebering the Corrections Controls is not understood. Does it remember the last used settings, does it remember based on files? This causes major problems as I render once on job 'A', later render on job 'B' with exposure adjusted, then when I do a re-render on job 'A' it has different settings to the first render
- Right clicking on a material in the list makes it 'active' but isn't highlighted - this is confusing!
- Mateial UI; Apply to layer is still incredibly difficult to use!
- VFB randomly saves all render elements when only one was asked to be saved - this is random and I am yet to figure out what triggers this
- region render fails if i have previously done a visrenderblowup
- if i do region render and close rhino + vray, the next time I open rhino + render the red region square is visible but not in use

Good list to start off.

I've had at least one time all the listed issues.

I sent some test scenes to fernando to correct some of these issues ( buckets problem with swarm in particular)

apart from this problem the most important to solve are these 2:

- After a big render Vray/Rhino doesn't close properly when I shut down my PC - this means all my rhino default UI is reset everytime I re-open Rhino
- No prompt when copying in an existing material - end up with many duplicate materials - horrible for library asset management

Without these two fixes I have serious difficulties working on my files...

[aaouviz]

I would like some more feedback on a few more items you mentioned.

For sake of clarity; I'll start another thread in the "V-Ray for Rhino :: Bugs"....

Grigio18, thanks for confirming these! As the list began to get larger I started to feel as if maybe it's me and not V-ray!

sheehan_partners_nm, 14 hours a day average might have been a slight exaggeration - but you get the point!

[aaouviz]

Ah, I don't have access to the bugs forum, so I put it in General. I trust you can find it.

What is the work flow you are looking to achieve with proxies and animation?

I know I can use proxies in rhino animations, however it is my understanding that in 3DS max the v-ray proxies themselves can be animated objects (ie; trees in wind)? This is a major draw-card to 3DS Max that I don't imagine we'll see in Rhino any time soon.

Can you describe these visible buckets and how this is an issue?

Please see my new forum post.

Grigio18, I'd love to see your bug list too...

[Peter.Chaushev]

Hello, everyone,

With the release of V-Ray 3.4 for Rhino (as well as V-Ray 3.4 for SketchUp) the new content policy is to provide a steady flow of feature updates.
Now that V-Ray for Rhino is benefiting from many of the recent advancements in the flagship products V-Ray for 3ds max and Maya, our Development team is ceaselessly prioritizing the most beneficial additions before specifically tailoring them for the Rhino environment.
I understand version 3.4 was long overdue and after the long wait some of you are frustrated that more features could be included. The design process, however, is a bit more tricky and does not allow the devs to simply unload all new core features in V-Ray for Rhino without considering at every step the needs of Rhino's userbase, the specifications of Rhino itself and the backward compatibility with V-Ray version 2.0.

Once again, I would like to stress that meaningful and exciting updates are going to follow on a regular basis!
Work on the project continues full steam after the official release just as it was before to ensure this is happening. Rest assured that features which you were hoping to be included in v3.4 can still make it in. For this, user feedback is crucial and tremendously appreciated!



Aaouviz, allow me to reply to your remarks in the following order:

- No 'Slate Style' material editor

This is an idea which we have been considering for some time. Its implementation, however, is far from simple. I cannot share any info at this point. Can only add that the request is being taken seriously.

- Limited (almost no!) Rhino online assets for purchase. (It's also more or less impossible to reliably import max materials into V4R when I do purchase something from Evermotion, for example).

Materials from 3ds max need to be manually recreated from their assets. There is a major feature under development which would tremendously easy the transfer of assets between V-Ray products. It is scheduled for the first release pack. More info would be available when we are closer to release.

My grievances (so far);
- I press render and go to chrome (or any other program) to browse; only to have the VFB appear on top suddenly, so I close it. It reappears soon after, close again, then it reappaears for a 3rd and final time. It dominates the screen and continually readjusts its size.
- Occasionally get 'locked' in material editor when editing a texture (back button doesnt work)
- After a big render Vray/Rhino doesn't close properly when I shut down my PC - this means all my rhino default UI is reset everytime I re-open Rhino
- Many many instances of 'vray nuei' in task manager - what is this? Shouldn't I get 2 instances of this total?
- The system behind the VFB rememebering the Corrections Controls is not understood. Does it remember the last used settings, does it remember based on files? This causes major problems as I render once on job 'A', later render on job 'B' with exposure adjusted, then when I do a re-render on job 'A' it has different settings to the first render

These were issues from the public beta builds which have been already fixed. Please advise when was the last time any of them have occurred.

- if i do region render and close rhino + vray, the next time I open rhino + render the red region square is visible but not in use

This one as has been partially resolved since the beta as well. The render region button will still appear depressed though. Turning it off and then on again would restore its functionality.

- Explorer pop-up for BMP file section always appears behind vray asset browser - incredibly annoying

This has been resolved in our internal builds. The fix will be included in the next upcoming version.

- The bloom + glare is still completely buggy - sometimes refuses to work saying channel not rendered. 'Intensity' doesnt work at all

Are you using V-Ray Swarm when these issues occur? We have a couple of known issues which have not been tackled yet.

- No prompt when copying in an existing material - end up with many duplicate materials - horrible for library asset management

Could you elaborate what is your workflow in this case and what is the result you expect? A step-by-step description would be appreciated!

- Crashes when switching to/from GPU/CPU renderinng

Do you switch modes while the render process is ongoing? Does the crash occur only in specific projects? Is there a RhinoCrashDump.3dm file on your desktop after the problem occurs?

- Cannot do batch renders properly as the depth of field isnt auto like it used to be

This is will be amended in the next upcoming update as well.

- I don't know if anyone else has this issue; but using commandline shortcuts doesn't work about 50% of the time, I have to click in the command line for Rhino to understand that I want to type something. Sometimes this takes multiple 'clicks' its as if there is an invisible window ontop (i heavily suspect vray to be the offender here) of rhino taking preference.

I was not able to reproduce this and neither did I find any previous reports of this behavior. Could you please provide detailed description of your actions when this occurs? Do you happen to use other 3-rd party plugins besides V-Ray?

- Right clicking on a material in the list makes it 'active' but isn't highlighted - this is confusing!

This can be improved, I'll pass the remark to one of our developers.

- Mateial UI; Apply to layer is still incredibly difficult to use!

Please advise what you find obstructive to your workflow. Applying material to layer should be pretty straightforward. Simply right-click > Apply Material To Layer > choose layer from the list. If the name of the layer you are looking for is too long, holding the cursor over the list entry produces a tooltip containing the full layer name.

- VFB randomly saves all render elements when only one was asked to be saved - this is random and I am yet to figure out what triggers this

The VFB "Save Current Channel" button actually has 2 more options if you hold the left mouse button over it. What you described is the functionality of the "Save all image channels to separate files" option.

- region render fails if i have previously done a visrenderblowup

I'll log this one, definitely a bug.

Thank you for all the feedback!

Kind regards,
Peter Chaushev

[LouisRyko]

Wow. Well this certainly blew up more than I expected. Appreciate all the feedback - the bugs listed are all mostly experienced here too.

I think with Peters last post things are looking pretty positive - hope it continues this way!

Rhino is a truly great program. Completely under appreciated. Lets build it up together and give it the attention and fanfare it deserves!

[Micha]

I was two days away and I'm glad to see the lively discussion now. Looks great. A lot of my problems are on the lists here, a few other I sent to Fer. If the functionality issues are solved we could start talk about UI issues.

Here the issues I sent per email:
* at high res output, for example 4000x3000, the LC is at low CPU usage (for example 12%)
* set a custom output size is cumbersome, for example 1200x2600 can't be direct typed in, the ration need to be set before
* global override material selection drop down menu doesn't show long material names (screenshot at my last beta forum bug post)
* advanced camera mode could kept enabled, if the user used it (also between Rhino sessions)
* advanced camera should get a F-Stop/ISO automatic like the basic mode to keep the exposure constant (missing old feature, where exposure can be disabled) (Why not weep out the academic defocus option of the basic cam options, most users are photographer?)
* switching to GPU RT cause wrong env texture projection (simple to test with a default scene of a fresh Rhino file) (screenshot at my forum bug post)
* alpha can't be disabled for output (option at the render elements missing)
* material -> add texture -> this UI needs an OK and a CANCEL button, only "back" is not enough
* VfR frame buffer got an extra task button at the task bar. Often I use more than one Rhino task at the same time and if each would add a frame buffer task button ...
* if I use ALT+TAB to switch between WINDOWS tasks than I see an entry for the asset editor, the progress window, the frame buffer
* if I switch from Rhino to the email software per ALT+TAB than the VfR UI stay on top

(The next weeks I have a lot of projects to work on. I will try to keep on the dicussion.)

[Micha]

Micha, "A lot people try to leave 3dsmax" - this is interesting. Why? As a rhino user I can see why 3DS max is a horrible program, but with the aforementioned points and huge selection of truly amazing render engines (Corona, fstorm, octane) and plug-ins, I don't see a mass of users leaving 3dsmax any time soon. If I truly wanted my render quality to improve a level or two or three(!) this would be my first step.

Looks like people doesn't trust AD anymore.

https://forums.chaosgroup.com/showth...ax-alternative
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/showth...uccess-with-it
https://forums.chaosgroup.com/showth...-their-marbles