Something wrong goes with Vray :(

[guest]

Don't want to mean rude, but It looks like ChaosGroup bury Vray more deeply with each new beta-release?

ChaosGroup promised us to release 1.5 almost 2 years ago (if I remember it correctly). What they do upon this time? Just look at the Bug Reports forum - each new beta version has just another new bugs. Instead of doing Vray faster and stable they are making it slower, less compatible, less stable. I can see no evolution?
How that can be, that 2 numbers older version - is more then extremely slow then previous one? How that can be - that max become much more fragile to use - with Vray installed, and much more stable - with Vray taken away? How that can be - that users should pray to make DR works right?

How they are checking their product - if a lot of ppl have almost the same problems after new beta release? Some funky spheres scenes? Still wondering about their (not all of them) beta-testers professionalism... Vlado should teach them to use new Vray's features using tutorials - isn't that funny?

I was in love in Vray for the long time, but this everlasting beta story - is really frustrating. If Cebas ever missed something like "2005 error" - somebody just will kill Edwin (I know it was fixed soon, but fact).

Btw, finalRender stage 1 have really nice DR for the long time already! You will have no any problems with maps, canceled slaves, not all features distributed and so on. No one have waited almost year to have working DR after max version changed. How this happened that this "bad" guy from Cebas made something better then "good" guys from ChaouGroup?

Again, I don't want to mean rude! I have almost purchased Vray (even after almost month delay with some things to be checked, and after my credit card was rejected by their processing service) and now I want to know about Vray's future to make the final decision. I think everybody wants to know what will be next...
But this situation looks really really strange. I cannot understand what happens with successful developers? Maybe they have no time for Vray? Or they went wrong road from the start - and now can't solve the old core limitations? Some other factors?

Please, tell me what is going on with Vray development?

ps. hope nobody bans me for this thread

[percydaman]

nobody's going to ban you. You have some points. I guess I would say that I certainly agree with parts of your post. I cant speak to chaos's workplan and such. I can tell you that fRender stage 0 was pretty cruddy, and cebas really suffered because of it. But it seems that I see more and more people posting works on other forums using vray. I can certainly hope that its because they liked and purchased it, and not because its been cracked or something.

I would imagine that implementing alot of these cutting edge rendering technologies is fairly problematic. Ive used just about all the latest renderers at some point in their lives and they've ALL had their share of bugs. As stable as brazil seems, I can distinctly remember plenty of people complaining of loads of bugs, questions about why they hadn't released new versions in a timely manner etc etc.

I doubt that your going to get much specific information about your questions, from those that "are in the know." But we all understand where your coming from and are bleeding in the trenches along with ya.

Thanks for the respecful, non flamin, post too.

PS. I can tell you that if something better then vray comes along that meets all my needs better then vray, then you can believe that Ill probably purchase it. Im a fanboy, but that doesn't mean that im blindly loyal.

[guest]

Thanks for you answer, Percy. You have some good points too. It looks like all developers have their own problems, just not all of them have courage to publicize their faults.
Anyway, looking forward to see next Vray beta's and at least DR to be working finally.

[akenny]

I have to agree on most of the points, but my main issue is the documentation.

It's just not good enough providing a simple manual that brushes over explanations of what each setting does. But it doesn't stop there. There should be tutorials, examples, without relying on the 'community' to provide them.

I find a worrying trend amongst 3D software companies like Chaos where documentation is the least of the priorities, especially among companies who offer downloadable versions of software.

I'm not after a printable manual or any disks, I want to be able to use the software I bought without searching forums discussing versions of software that are poor relations of my version.

I have quite a few licences for Brazil as well and Splutterfish seem to operate in a similar manner to Chaos - unforunately. But I have to say Splutterfish seem to have their act together a bit better on the documentation front -- not a lot, but they are better.

I know most of you have learnt perfectly well on your own, but I guess most of the people on here have been with Vray for quite some time - I haven't, and many of the new purchasers probably haven't.

Having to find out something doesn't work properly by having to do endless searches in these forums is tedious. There should be release notes describing EVERYTHING. Here's one example of many:

http://www.chaoticdimension.com/foru...ic.php?t=10525

The other thing that is extremely annoying is when a new version comes out, suddenly the settings you were using before have either disappeared, been renamed, or the values have completely changed. I DO know that 1.46 is a beta and things will change, but do Chaos have any kind of idea where they're going with it, or is everything developed and changed on an ad-hoc basis?

I made a similar post to this on the Brazil forums some time ago and things have improved since then. I just hope Chaos get their act together on the docs front. If not, when Brazil 2 comes out I may move the entire operation over to Brazil (if it's good enough).

There are some things that a more important than a new twiddly bit that makes the render .1 second faster. If you knew how to use the software you were using properly you wouldn't need to shave off .1 second, you'd be shaving off much more.

No flame intended, just want to use this nice bit of software I have

[RErender]

I think we just need to accept that rendering is a wild frontier, what you are looking for is maturity. Brazil has had a bit more time to mature, but it has also been a long time since anything new from it. I am able to accept the learning curve (or is that a wave?), some instabilities and some incompatibilities in exchange for allowing the technology to grow. Do you really want the developement to stall so you can catch up?

[x-site]

:: I think everyone has made very important points here. I for one enjoy getting good results whenever i play with this software, unfortunatly i find the amount of settings and technical jurgen just overwhelming. Why does it need to be so hard to use?

I like Vray because of the render qualities, but so does Brazil and a couple of other applications. Huge issue is always the amount of time i need to spend setting up light and materials and all the tweaking. For each hour i spend modeling i spend at least a couple 'trying' to render.

I had a look at maxwell and i think they are into something. The amount of settings for one is only a fraction of those used by Vray. Sometimes I wonder if software is designed by people only for those with similar interest in programing. Personaly i don't care about half of the 'features' included, i am always after quick and easy to follow settings which can achieve good results. It is a shame about all the bugs and 'backsteping' with some of its strengths, but i am still sure that the moment you or anyone can comes up with a programe which is practicaly fools proof for users, you will have your bytes turned into gold. I will aslways keep look for something 'better'. ::

[percydaman]

maxwell seems nice, but I personally want all the control I can have. Im not ready to give that up for some simple click and render stuff. I guess it helped that I started using vray when it was ALOT simpler...

[Gijs]

And I don't think it will be all that easy with maxwell either. If I set up my scene in Vray it hardly takes more than a few minutes to choose the right settings, but finding the right materials is another story. From what I have seen the material settings in maxwell can be complicated too.

As far as Vray's development, I also agree that changes between versions are most of the time poorly documented and you have to be on top of things if you don't want to miss the important information. On the other hand, I think that is what beta testing is all about.
There have been many problems with the Vray material and at the moment I am still crossing my fingers if all issues are solved, looking at current posts. I remember the first 1.46 release was very frustrating for many people.

So Chaos guys, I have a lot of respect for your skills to bring us this versatile and fast render engine, let's hope the communication about Vray (changes and manual) will catch up with your high standard.

Thank you.