Working in Non-Linear Space

[vlado]

argh... wasnt there an issue with color correct and VRay? It is sweet but I worry about long time support for a freebee plugin. Any chance of getting a similar behavior native to VRay? I believe the issue was rare but I cant help but sweat, used it already on some isolated projects, with great results.

If you are using the ColorCorrect plugin for gamma correction only, then you don't really need it in 3dsmax 8. In 3dsmax 8, you can specify an image gamma when you load it from withing 3dsmax. Then it will be automatically corrected to linear space by 3dsmax itself.

Best regards,
Vlado

[throb]

And a side note.. LWF is sh*t for exterior renderings.
Its really only practical for interiors.

I've heard this alot and I can't understand why this would be the case. If LWF is setup to more accurately mimic how light is distributed in a scene, wouldn't this hold true for exteriors as well? I've used LWF on some exteriors and it seems to work fine. Granted I do adjust the secondary bounce multiplier down a little (to about .75) but this isn't negating the effects of LWF. Can anyone elaborate on this a little more?
David

LWF is not shit for exteriors. it works great for them. honestly, if you get bad results using it, then you need to rework your work. seriously!
all of mezzo (all exteriors) were done with the linear color space and floating point output. the ONLY time we baked in the linearizing curve was when we went from the color grading stage to final stage or temp quicktimes for the client.

proof it works?
http://throb.net/mezzo/

linear workflow isn't for everyone. why not? some people don't get it and are not interested in getting it. that's fine. however, they will be left behind as software goes in this direction and they will be forced to work this way because it will give them (and their clients) the photographic look they want.

hell, an sRGB curve is baked into all the images that digital cameras take! ever take a picture of an exterior with a digital camera? how did it look? heheeh.

remember, just because you can't make it work doesn't make it shit.

try changing how you work. you may surprise yourself how easy you can make certain tasks.
i often redo composites and start from scratch. when i do this, it's guaranteed the script will run faster and have 25-50% less nodes in them.

rob

[DaForce]

The only reason I came to that conclusion is that myself and a few others had bad results repeatedly using LWF in exteriors. But like you said, i guess we just have to keep at it until we find something that works for us.

Thanks

[throb]

The only reason I came to that conclusion is that myself and a few others had bad results repeatedly using LWF in exteriors. But like you said, i guess we just have to keep at it until we find something that works for us.

Thanks

without seeing your scene, i can almost guarantee you that your material settings (and possibly lights) need tweaking for the linear workflow.

start from total scratch and it will work. we got contrast and things really did work. the last feature film i worked on we did LWF (as all of DD film productions do) and it was all exteriors with landscapes and jets. seemed to work there too.

keep workin at it.

rob

[DaForce]

Sweet thanks.

I will get stuck into it tonight.

Do you use color mapping.. like the ol' 1.0/0.45454

Or do you save out to float and do the equivilent in PS or similar?

[throb]

Sweet thanks.

I will get stuck into it tonight.

Do you use color mapping.. like the ol' 1.0/0.45454

Or do you save out to float and do the equivilent in PS or similar?

i never never never use the color mapping.

[DaForce]

right.

So, what would a rough work flow be like for you?

Max gamma, on
color mapping: linear 1/1 ??
and just render out to float and tweak in PS or similar?

anything you can give would be a tremendous help.

[throb]

right.

So, what would a rough work flow be like for you?

Max gamma, on
color mapping: linear 1/1 ??
and just render out to float and tweak in PS or similar?

anything you can give would be a tremendous help.

max gamma to 2.2 and turn ON the affect material color and color selector.
i also put the input gamma of bitmaps to 2.2 and output to 1.0
why? well, i don't like bothering with that stuff in PS and this essentially does the same thing...
render to vrimg files
convert using -half -compression zip
use nuke for compositing

[DaForce]

excellent excellent!!

one more Q
How would you change in those steps to use PS instead of nuke

Say it was just for a single render not for comping at all.
And what would you need to change in PS to get the image looking right.. levels.. curves?

THanks heaps

[throb]

one more Q
How would you change in those steps to use PS instead of nuke

Say it was just for a single render not for comping at all.
And what would you need to change in PS to get the image looking right.. levels.. curves?

THanks heaps

sorry, i use nuke for single images also. for simple cc and what not, i trust nuke above any other tool in my arsenal. nuke is my image pipeline 100%. if it doesn't look right in nuke then there is a problem.

i recommend using a LUT (i think they call it a profile in PS) for PS so that wysiwyg with vray, etc. i believe a few users have posted their real sRGB profiles, etc.

[DaForce]

Righto.. cool.

Gives me something work on.

Thanks man

oh one more thing.. it seems the bulk of our problem have stemed from using vray sun and sky. Have you tried LWF with those?

[throb]

Righto.. cool.

Gives me something work on.

Thanks man

oh one more thing.. it seems the bulk of our problem have stemed from using vray sun and sky. Have you tried LWF with those?

yep!
works really really well.

http://throb.net/vray/qmc_test_sky.mov

there is a test with the sun/sky system

[DaForce]

sweet!!!

You dont use colorcorrect map at all do you?

[throb]

sweet!!!

You dont use colorcorrect map at all do you?

now what the hell would i use that for? ahah...
seriously though, i kinda use it without using it.
what do i mean?
well, i use it by transforming the incoming bit maps to linear with the input/output gamma i talked about

[DaForce]

ahh right.

Gotcha