Car cad data extreme slow down

[ali_cgi]

Just tried my scene in 2014, and its fine, so it must be a bug unless, the unlinking process has changed fundamentally or there is a default setting somewhere,
John have you had any luck?

Thanks
Ali

[Wilyman]

Just tried my scene in 2014, and its fine, so it must be a bug unless, the unlinking process has changed fundamentally or there is a default setting somewhere,
John have you had any luck?

Thanks
Ali

Nope.
And I've had a few other strange issues in 2016 recently, like scaled objects changing size if I save and reopen a file.
I think I'm going to cut my losses and go back to 2015 for the time being.

[ali_cgi]

yeh my objects are also scaling sometimes with that rotation problem sometimes, cant seem to figure out whats causing it, only noticing it since sp2 but could have been the same in sp1

[Wilyman]

yeh my objects are also scaling sometimes with that rotation problem sometimes, cant seem to figure out whats causing it, only noticing it since sp2 but could have been the same in sp1

I've got a machine here with no service packs on (not quite sure why I haven't updated it yet!), and I'm having the same problems there.

[Wilyman]

Sounds like this is all part of the same issue...

http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...ouping-objects

[ali_cgi]

Thanks John! Ive posted this in there also now

[AC5L4T3R]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party but I have a couple of questions.

We get our data from the client in Maya binary files and import them in to VRED. I'd love to be able to have the cars inside 3ds max, so I could see what I could do in Vray. So far, the only way I have gotten a car in to Max is to export it from VRED as an FBX and import in to Max, but once the car is in the scene, it pretty much kills Max because there's so much data. I didn't know about deleting the helpers/null objects so I'll give that a go.. and also check out the schematic view. Does anyone that uses Maya know if I can do this without using VRED to export? If I export stuff from VRED as FBX, the mesh is not smooth at all because the faces of each object are not joined together. Exporting as OBJ fixes this, but then all groups are gone, and the entire car is just one mesh.

Cheers!

[Wilyman]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party but I have a couple of questions.

We get our data from the client in Maya binary files and import them in to VRED. I'd love to be able to have the cars inside 3ds max, so I could see what I could do in Vray. So far, the only way I have gotten a car in to Max is to export it from VRED as an FBX and import in to Max, but once the car is in the scene, it pretty much kills Max because there's so much data. I didn't know about deleting the helpers/null objects so I'll give that a go.. and also check out the schematic view. Does anyone that uses Maya know if I can do this without using VRED to export? If I export stuff from VRED as FBX, the mesh is not smooth at all because the faces of each object are not joined together. Exporting as OBJ fixes this, but then all groups are gone, and the entire car is just one mesh.

Cheers!

You can export directly from Maya as an FBX. No need to go through Vred.
You can also weld the vertices in Maya before you export, because it's infinitely better than doing it in Max.

If you're working on Porsche jobs, you're getting the same data as me, so I'm surprised it's killing Max. I've never really had a problem.

Cheers,

John

[kosso_olli]

I'm not sure if the Quadro card is part of the problem...

John, why would you want to weld the vertices in Maya? Just curious. In my opinion you loose the ability to select elements of the mesh that were originally the patches in the CAD program before. I often need to select parts of the mesh for the assignment of multiple materials to a single object.
Also, welding in Max is really quick and good using the ProOptimizer modifier in my experience.

[Wilyman]

John, why would you want to weld the vertices in Maya? Just curious. In my opinion you loose the ability to select elements of the mesh that were originally the patches in the CAD program before. I often need to select parts of the mesh for the assignment of multiple materials to a single object.
Also, welding in Max is really quick and good using the ProOptimizer modifier in my experience.

I'm sure I had a good reason when I first started doing it! Ever since then I've just done it without thinking.
Off the top of my head, the only good reason I can think of for doing it is for using the shell modifier on single layer glass pieces, as it'll go crazy if the verts aren't welded. But I'm sure I must have had better reasons!

In terms of selecting parts of meshes that need different materials, I tend to do that in Maya before I export too. Or just ask RTT to do their job properly and split them up!

I'm really interested in how you deal with the Maya meshes in Max. I've always found that trying to do anything with them (welding, smoothing, resetting xforms, etc) just messes up the smoothing and leaves me with artifacts everywhere.
For that reason I try to get everything sorted in Maya first, and then leave everything well alone in Max.

Cheers,

John

[kosso_olli]

I'm really interested in how you deal with the Maya meshes in Max. I've always found that trying to do anything with them (welding, smoothing, resetting xforms, etc) just messes up the smoothing and leaves me with artifacts everywhere.
For that reason I try to get everything sorted in Maya first, and then leave everything well alone in Max.

My workflow is to leave Maya as quickly as possible. That means opening the dataset in Maya, maybe flipping some objects that have wrong normals and that's it. Write to fbx and import that in Max.

Welding works just fine using the ProOptimizer. Smoothing is never ever to be touched with CAD data. No need for that, as the data you import has to look good in the first place. If it doesn't, something went wrong during export/import. Smoothing on CAD can not work by design, and I am afraid would be the same in Maya.

Artifacts often appear when you do certain operations on the wrong type of object. Unwrap UWV on edit mesh always breaks normals. You have to convert to editable poly first (select objects to convert, then right click, convert to edit poly). Operations like unwrap and reset xform should work just fine now. Not sure about shell, that thing has its own problems. Most of the problems with artifacts arise because there are these two different types of meshes. You have to know when to use one or the other. Same for flipping faces, both types have a function for that, but they do different things. One flips face normals, the other vertex normals.

[Wilyman]

My workflow is to leave Maya as quickly as possible. That means opening the dataset in Maya, maybe flipping some objects that have wrong normals and that's it. Write to fbx and import that in Max.

Welding works just fine using the ProOptimizer.

Interesting. It's not something I've ever used, so I'll have a look. Welding inside an editable mesh/poly or using the vertex weld modifier has always caused me problems.

Smoothing is never ever to be touched with CAD data. No need for that, as the data you import has to look good in the first place. If it doesn't, something went wrong during export/import. Smoothing on CAD can not work by design, and I am afraid would be the same in Maya.

Just to clarify, I don't mean subdividing. I mean using the smooth modifier in Max to get rid of faceting and/or jagged reflections on insufficiently tessellated data. But it rarely works, without causing more problems than it solves.

Artifacts often appear when you do certain operations on the wrong type of object. Unwrap UWV on edit mesh always breaks normals. You have to convert to editable poly first (select objects to convert, then right click, convert to edit poly). Operations like unwrap and reset xform should work just fine now.

Again, I find that simply converting anything to edit poly messes up the normals immediately. Strange that we have such differing results. Perhaps something to do with our fbx export/import settings?

Cheers,

John

[kosso_olli]

Interesting. It's not something I've ever used, so I'll have a look. Welding inside an editable mesh/poly or using the vertex weld modifier has always caused me problems.

It works. In the merge section, tick merge vertices and set threshold to 0.0. Also, keep normals and protect normals should be checked. Leave everything else at default, press calculate. The amount of vertices should be reduced significantly while everything else should look exactly as before. No artifacts or anything.

Just to clarify, I don't mean subdividing. I mean using the smooth modifier in Max to get rid of faceting and/or jagged reflections on insufficiently tessellated data. But it rarely works, without causing more problems than it solves.

Yes, we are talking about the same thing. This never works on CAD data. If there is faceting on your objects where it should not be, either something went wrong on import or the tesselation just is too low. Nothing you can do about that in Max I'm afraid.

Again, I find that simply converting anything to edit poly messes up the normals immediately. Strange that we have such differing results.

Please make sure to right click->convert. It really makes a difference. Slapping and edit poly modifier on top of edit mesh instantly breaks normals. If you want, you can send me a single part you are having troubles with, so I could check what's wrong. Very rarely had a part that was unfixable in Max. It can do a lot more out of the box than people think.

Perhaps something to do with our fbx export/import settings?

I always use the presets in the dialogues of both programs. I think Autodesk Media and Entertainment. Hardly ever fails, if it does, try alembic. Also works very well.

[Wilyman]

Please make sure to right click->convert. It really makes a difference. Slapping and edit poly modifier on top of edit mesh instantly breaks normals.

Very interesting. I always assumed they'd do exactly the same thing.

Cheers,

John

[Morne]

John and Oliver, some interesting points you bring up there. I have a question for you both.
What if, I get the RAW CAD data, not Maya files, and not exported from Maya to fbx, but the RAW Catia 5 data (or in some cases the STEP files)
How do I get that into a usable form into Max, considering I don't have Maya?