Vantage 2 as a benifit

[glorybound]

I always thought that Chaos needed to add things for members (subscribers) to keep people from going to other, less expensive options. I saw this on the wall right before they purchased Corona, which to me was validation. Then I saw Cosmos, which again validated my opinion. Above, I used "members" selectively because this forum was like a members group that got expert attention from developers and other power users; it was worth its price in gold. Today, the board is dead, and it takes days, weeks, or never to get answers. When something like a private members board dies, what do you do to keep people feeling like they are important and not just another revenue stream? Well, you build Cosmos, and then Vantage. Think of how many people you can get with those benefits? It looks like I was wrong. To me, Chaos is just another software vendor to choose from. We have Blender, Twinmotion, D5 Render and many other solutions that are far less expensive, and yes, some free. Vantage is the cost of V-Ray, and you need V-Ray to use it. I am sure Chaos has to compete with pirates also, so you have to be smarter. Know people will steal your software, and make up for it on getting as many paying customers as you can, with benefits. Of course just my thought.

[mindventures]

I faithfully used Vray since version 1.5 and still use it, like it and pay for it, but yes, you're absolutely right, I think the same! Chaos has become less and less customer-friendly over the years. This started when they went the unsympathetic subscription way and everything became significantly more expensive. I still hate subscriptions, good for the company always worse for the user, but enough was said about this already...
Anyway...overall there's not the same friendly and helpful kind of relationship between the user and the owner/developer like it used to be with Chaos, which is a shame... When they announce changes to their portfolio and pricing structures, it is always a benefit for them, but usually not at all for their customers, except if you like to pay more every time. Why not offer at least a premium package where the user can decide which products they want to be included or at least give the user more different package options, it's all so unflexible... All this creates a feeling of not really being valued as a customer anymore.

[glorybound]

I always thought that I would be willing to pay for access to the forum, but that has changed; it was a benefit to being a V-Ray member. Remember when it was an app and not only web-based? That was the turning point for me. 3DS MAX without an indie license, I think would bury them. Once Blender becomes more user friendly, I am not sure the indie license would matter much. It is typical... Involvement of investors; It gets worse when the investors get old. They want to cash out and retire and they’ll kill the product to make the most money they can; I have seen it over and over.

[cadman5]

You guys are right but overthink their decision perhaps too much.

Ask yourself the following: If tomorrow another company produces a better visualisation tool than Vantage , will you be staying "faithful" to Chaos? Many if not most of the existing customers will leave and Chaos management knows it. So why should they be specially friendly or accommodating? Loyalty?
Companies don´t have friends (or enemies), just interests.

Now another thing is to wonder if doubling the price is a good move for then. It may not be. Time will tell.

[glorybound]

Often, companies have member perks. Just like companies have employee benefits. These companies need to fight for their subscribers with perks; you can buy software anywhere. Raising prices is simple economics. You raise your price until you lose customers, and then you know what people will pay for your product. I get it, but you can't take so much away and double your prices. That is suicide. You'll lose many honest people who will find another solution, and other less honest will simply wait for the cracked version. Unless the plan is to abandon the freelance community who made you, and target the large studios who will not complain about the price. This might be the company Chaos has become. I think they have planned the strategy well, starting with acquiring Corona.

[trick]

Love VRay...but absolutely agree with the above. Example: 2 serious support entries and NO response in a week!! That's not the Chaos I know.

[cadman5]

Time to take a look at D5render. Btw for architectural exteriors it is a more capable software overall (using it from the start). Vantage is still slightly better for interiors. But for visualizers doing just exterior renders/animations, it is a great alternative.

[vlado]

trick If you can tell me the IDs of the support tickets, I will check what happened with them.

As for the rest, internally Vantage was always intended to be released as a standalone product. We decided to first experiment with including it in the collections however when we took a look at the financials we realized that we will need to start charging for it if we want to be able to keep developing it. The specific price point can be debated for sure; usually in time it becomes apparent if it is the right one or needs to be adjusted.

Best regards,
Vlado

[trick]

trick If you can tell me the IDs of the support tickets, I will check what happened with them.

Hi Vlado,

Thanks for listening. Tried to send you PM, but your inbox quota is exceeded. So here the #: 130922 and 130409

[vlado]

Tried to send you PM, but your inbox quota is exceeded. So here the #: 130922 and 130409

Thanks, I found the cases and asked the team to look into them; the backlog is a bit long since the switch to Zuora as a payment provider a few weeks ago. I will check again tomorrow.

Best regards,
Vlado

[glorybound]

trick If you can tell me the IDs of the support tickets, I will check what happened with them.

As for the rest, internally Vantage was always intended to be released as a standalone product. We decided to first experiment with including it in the collections however when we took a look at the financials we realized that we will need to start charging for it if we want to be able to keep developing it. The specific price point can be debated for sure; usually in time it becomes apparent if it is the right one or needs to be adjusted.

Best regards,
Vlado

I never thought it would be free. I thought the premium subscription was the path, which is why I upgraded. Competition means good things for the consumer, like adding Vantage to the package. If you remember, originally Tesla owners could charge at Tesla stations for free; it was a perk. Personally, after 15 years with V-Ray, I am looking at alternatives. Now, one project in Vantage would pay for Vantage, I get it, but you can do the same for less money, or even free. We all have to know our competition. I am sure Chaos knows their competition, and with Blender and Unreal, how do you compete with free? I will pay for a premium subscription to push the learning of new software can down the road, but double the price? And this is after losing 5 render nodes, and the price of V-Ray continuing to climb since then. More for less seems to be the way things are going here.

[squintnic]

agree bobby its extractive pricing with zero incentive or recognition of existing users.
the premium sub package was misleading IMO and will harm uptake of new users to vantage.

[glorybound]

The premium sub package was for sure bait and switch. When the free testers version expired, sales told me if I wanted to gain access to it I would have to upgrade to premium, which I did, and for no other reason. Anyway, it is up to users if they want to pay for it or not.

[trick]

Thanks, I found the cases and asked the team to look into them; the backlog is a bit long since the switch to Zuora as a payment provider a few weeks ago. I will check again tomorrow.

Best regards,
Vlado

Thanks...Waiting patiently

[trick]

Thanks...Waiting patiently

And now the solutions show exactly why I feel Chaos has not changed for the better!!!!!!!