Simulation license

[stevegh]

I believe this was mentioned before, but being able to simulate a file on a network machine, while having my machine fully free to render or do other things would be fantastic. Granted Phoenix currently doesn't utilize all of my processor and I understand why, it would be great to be able to purchase simulation licenses and have an interface to connect up to and submit simulations to machines on the network!

As always great work I am loving the plugin and can't wait to see it develop!
-S

[jstrob]

It would be very useful indeed!

[Neilg]

I pretty much always work with phoenix through remote desktop on another machine for this. If it's a local network then you wont notice any lag for changing settings - i assume you wouldn't be trying to model through it.

It's not ideal, but doing 10 minutes in phoenix then some other work for an hour and bouncing between serves me well.

[LarsSonparsson]

The only problem with the remote setup is, that it's using one of your host application license at the same time. I'd like to see real "simulate in network" solution. It doesn't have to be distributed or even shared project with multiple computers. If I just could send one simulation job to one render node, without having to buy new Max and Phoenix license, I'd be satisfied.

[Ivaylo Katev]

yes, this would be really useful. separate license for remote work with no UI, this is very important because there is widely accepted practice to start one simulation in multiple machines with slightly changed settings, to find which direction is better.
unlike the rendering, the simulation is very unpredictable and this technique is a fast way to avoid multiple experiments. this can't be added for 2.2, but for 3.0 we have to add it.

[jstrob]

Can't wait for v 3.0!

[jstrob]

Any idea when sim license (v3) could be available? I would really need them right now...

[Ivaylo Katev]

it's relatively easy to allow simulation start when the max is in running server mode, but how this can be used if you have no system for parameter deviation? you have to write script that randomly changes certain parameters in the OnSimulationBegin callback function. if you are ready to use it in this way, we can modify the licensing.

[jstrob]

Ok. I am not very good at scripting but I would like to try this. So if you change my licensing i would be able to start sim by scripting. Maybe it can be a script that just load some presets and change somme setttings and then start the sim. Should not be too complicated even if I'm sure it will not work the first time... But can you change my licensing right now?

[jstrob]

by reading again your post, I'm not sure I understand. you talk about parameter deviation and "randomly changing" the parameters... could you explain a bit?

[Ivaylo Katev]

for example you have a simulation of fire that you need to improve. you change some parameter and simulate again, if the result is better you keep the new value otherwise restore the old value, this is the usual way. if you have multiple machines you can start the simulation on each machine with random variation in certain parameters. we have plans to build a system that shows you in small windows the rendered result of each machine and you can select for the next iteration the best looking ones. the selected set is "mutated" and replicated again and this continues until you reach the desired setup. this system will need time to be implemented, but having the license change you can use script to achieve the same result by your self. i'm not very familiar with the back burner, but i know that there is a way to execute a script after the max is loaded, the script body must be A_StartSim $phoenixsimname , and the simulator itself must contain script for parameter mutation and rendering after the simulation is finished.
the parameter mutation can be implemented in the same script that starts the simulation (must be included before the A_StartSim command) or in the OnSimulationBegin callback, i think the first option is better because some parameters must be set before the simulation is started.
in the first case you can reach the parameters with $phoenixsimname.parametername, in the second case you can use this.parametername
for example you can mutate the spf by this script
$phoenixsimname.spflimit0+=(random 1 4)
this will increase your spf by random value in range [1..4], if your original spf is 2, the slave machines will simulate with spf= 3 or 4 or 5 or 6
the test rendering can be initiated in the OnSimulationEnd callback. if you open the phoenix script, there is already prepared the simplest rendering command "max quick render", that just renders with the current render setup. the complicated part here is how to collect all the images in single directory where you can compare them. this is also doable by script but i think it's too hard, better save the image in certain local path and then collect them by hand.
and something very important - i'm sceptical that all these scripts will start to work from the first try, it's important to test them on the local machine in the listener, where you can get proper error messages and to include the needed corrections.

[jstrob]

Ok very it would be a very cool feature. This is something we really need in production.

I use deadline and RPManager so I think I have tools to try scripting something. But if I try right now, my current licensing won't allow simulating in server mode I guess? If I understand you have to modify my licensing. Can you do it now or do you have to do some more work about it?

and about changing parameters, I can also do it by hand before submitting. It's not that long to do.

[Ivaylo Katev]

we discussed this option here, but unfortunately it's not acceptable for now. if we unlock the slave mode simulation, it's very easy to run separate max in slave mode to perform the simulation without license.
if we implement this system, there will be separate network simulation license.

[vlado]

But if I try right now, my current licensing won't allow simulating in server mode I guess?

You can certainly simulate in server mode, but this will lock your simulation license during that time.

Best regards,
Vlado

[jstrob]

You can certainly simulate in server mode, but this will lock your simulation license during that time.

Best regards,
Vlado

Ok LOL! That's not the point!

I'm willing to pay to buy simulation licenses. But right now I would need to buy full licenses just to simulate iterations on my farm Which would be a bit costly. Not that you don't deserve it but I just don't have that much money. If the sim licenses were around 100$ or less, I would certainly buy 10 right now. that would allow us, users to make more beautiful sim and then you will sell more and more full licenses and sim licenses!