Upgrade costs for Vray 5 / increase in the last 6 years

[glorybound]

I have a server board in my workstation, so I might not be experiencing the limitations you speak about. I can render anything and do anything else I want on my PC.

[Joelaff]

I have a server board in my workstation, so I might not be experiencing the limitations you speak about. I can render anything and do anything else I want on my PC.

We do too. There are still definite slow downs. It is scene dependent, though. It is better than Windows 7/8, but I still don't want to work like that. Also, since we do animations, we are talking hours or days...

For instance, I am rendering in the background now, even on the workstation.. I don't notice it browsing the web, or even playing videos, etc. However, if I want to work in Max I do. IF you use GPU you really notice it because if you do complex scenes, the card will run out of memory when rendering both for the background and the foreground (I run Titans out of memory on individual scenes-- just one-- but we do some pretty heavy scenes.)

[francomanko]

I am not a fan of indie licenses because why should I pay 10x more than somebody else for the exact same product? Should people be penalized for success due to talent, or experience (or even whom they know)? I don't think so. Basically, Indie pricing means the "pro" version is overpriced and "pros" are buying licenses for "Indie" users. This is worse since many Indie users are actually professionals who just either don't exceed the cutoff (or lie). Educational licenses, which are forbidden from being used for commercial purposes are a good thing, though.

that statement is so wrong and frankly a little insulting.

[Joelaff]

that statement is so wrong and frankly a little insulting.

Don't you think paying 10x as much for the same thing is insulting? I find it very much so. "You are working hard and doing well... PAY MORE!"

Not sure how that quote is wrong either. The companies selling the software are going to make X dollars no matter what. If they offer indie licenses then the pro license HAVE to be more expensive to make up the shortfall. If everyone was charged the same amount the cost for the license would be less than the cost for the pro license.

Also, again we are not talking pro vs. hobbyist... We are talking different levels of pro, since indie users frequently use the licenses to make money.

I get a lot of people couldn't stay in business at the "pro" prices, but why should I have to pay those prices? As your revenue expands so does your overhead, and just because someone is making more revenue doesn't mean they have more money to spare. Note that the pricing is based on revenue, not profit.

Should a carpenter who has a higher revenue pay more for the same hammer than someone with lower revenue? Of course not.

[JezUK]

Don't you think paying 10x as much for the same thing is insulting? I find it very much so. "You are working hard and doing well... PAY MORE!"

Not sure how that quote is wrong either. The companies selling the software are going to make X dollars no matter what. If they offer indie licenses then the pro license HAVE to be more expensive to make up the shortfall. If everyone was charged the same amount the cost for the license would be less than the cost for the pro license.

Also, again we are not talking pro vs. hobbyist... We are talking different levels of pro, since indie users frequently use the licenses to make money.

I get a lot of people couldn't stay in business at the "pro" prices, but why should I have to pay those prices? As your revenue expands so does your overhead, and just because someone is making more revenue doesn't mean they have more money to spare. Note that the pricing is based on revenue, not profit.

Should a carpenter who has a higher revenue pay more for the same hammer than someone with lower revenue? Of course not.

Am I missing something ? Where are you paying 10x more ? I don’t know any indie version of any software that is 10x its ‘pro’ counterpart.

[francomanko]

My issue with your statement, is that clearly not everyone is in the same situation as yourself and to imply that as a consequence they mustn't have talent or experience because they request an indie license isn't the best statement to make.

[Joelaff]

My issue with your statement, is that clearly not everyone is in the same situation as yourself and to imply that as a consequence they mustn't have talent or experience because they request an indie license isn't the best statement to make.

I was not implying or even meaning to insinuate such. This was why I added the "(or even whom they know)" part. Because I think we all know the economic "success" is based on a LOT of variables, and does not always involve a lot of skill. Just because someone makes less revenue doesn't mean they are any less talented, or experienced. Those things often lead to higher revenue, but not always. Also, note that someone could have more than the cutoff of revenue but still make zero or even NEGATIVE profit. I don't care what a business makes in revenue, profit is what matters.

The point is that charging different people different amounts to me is just plain wrong. You are classifying people and make assumptions about an individual based on a group. The other point was that the people paying more are, in fact, subsidizing those paying less.

[francomanko]

Should a carpenter who has a higher revenue pay more for the same hammer than someone with lower revenue? Of course not.

Depends, maybe if the cost prevents talented carpenters from using the hammer...then yeah, maybe they should be able to get an indie hammer, maybe not with the oak handle that you bought (disclaimer : this is a lighthearted comment)

[Joelaff]

Am I missing something ? Where are you paying 10x more ? I don’t know any indie version of any software that is 10x its ‘pro’ counterpart.

My replies stemmed from people requesting such indie pricing for VRay. Max (and I think most AD products) have this indie pricing. An Indie license of Max is ~1/10th the cost of a normal version. The stipulation (at least in the US) is that you have revenue of less than $100k per anum. So if you bill $101K or more you are supposed to pay ~10x more.

[Joelaff]

Depends, maybe if the cost prevents talented carpenters from using the hammer...then yeah, maybe they should be able to get an indie hammer, maybe not with the oak handle that you bought

And I agree with THIS totally... Not with the oak handle. Limit the renderer to just a hair shy of HD 1920x1020 or something. This is how the lower costs licenses used to work about a decade ago.

With regard to (at least Max) software this is the EXACT SAME hammer. That is what I take umbrage with.

[francomanko]

hmm, nails would be like vray render nodes....make the nails cheaper

[Joelaff]

hmm, nails would be like vray render nodes....make the nails cheaper

LOL.

(disclaimer : pretty much ALL of my stupid comments are (meant to be) lighthearted comments)

[JezUK]

My replies stemmed from people requesting such indie pricing for VRay. Max (and I think most AD products) have this indie pricing. An Indie license of Max is ~1/10th the cost of a normal version. The stipulation (at least in the US) is that you have revenue of less than $100k per anum. So if you bill $101K or more you are supposed to pay ~10x more.

No it’s not.

$1545 vs $250

personally, I think $1545 is about $750 too much.....

[Joelaff]

No it’s not.

$1545 vs $250

personally, I think $1545 is about $750 too much.....

OK-- Semantics... 6.18x vs. 10x. Either way it is wrong to me.

I don't follow the specific prices (might have been for the entire Media Creation Bundle), and most resellers sell for something other than the exact list price anyway. So you mileage may vary.

[trick]

Don't you think paying 10x as much for the same thing is insulting? I find it very much so. "You are working hard and doing well... PAY MORE!"

Not sure how that quote is wrong either. The companies selling the software are going to make X dollars no matter what. If they offer indie licenses then the pro license HAVE to be more expensive to make up the shortfall. If everyone was charged the same amount the cost for the license would be less than the cost for the pro license.

Also, again we are not talking pro vs. hobbyist... We are talking different levels of pro, since indie users frequently use the licenses to make money.

I get a lot of people couldn't stay in business at the "pro" prices, but why should I have to pay those prices? As your revenue expands so does your overhead, and just because someone is making more revenue doesn't mean they have more money to spare. Note that the pricing is based on revenue, not profit.

Should a carpenter who has a higher revenue pay more for the same hammer than someone with lower revenue? Of course not.

Sorry to say this: but this is just utter rubbish. You find the Collections or Bundles insulting? You find Black Friday insulting? If your business model wants to reach as many users as possible to penetrate the market for whatever price and makes you a profitable company than that is a good thing. If you miss the Indie pricing with 101K, well: either skip a bill or spend the 1K extra on a full subscription. The indie price is for a SINGLE person, not for a multi user company. With over 100K earnings I certainly won't mind to pay full price! I am from Europe: historically the pricing for Max over here has been far more expensive than US, as are many other products. Taling about fair business.