3dmax Design 2009 and onwards ... vray support?

[scottsch]

Hi all,

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I just got this email from Autodesk:

Dear (me),

Choose your 3ds Max by 5:00 PM PST on Thursday, February 26, 2009.

Last year, as an Autodesk® Subscription customer, you received Select Edition of Autodesk® 3ds Max® 2009 software that allowed you to install either Autodesk 3ds Max or Autodesk® 3ds Max® Design. Now that you’ve had the chance to try both versions, it’s time to choose which 3ds Max is right for you.

This year, we’re giving Subscription members a limited, one-time opportunity, to cross-grade licenses from Autodesk 3ds Max to Autodesk 3ds Max Design (or vice versa)* at no additional charge.

Make your choice now by clicking here.

Discover the differences between Autodesk 3ds Max and Autodesk 3ds Max Design by clicking here.

Thank you for choosing Autodesk Subscription.
Autodesk 3ds Max Product Team

I'm not real crazy about the idea of a product split, because it means plugin developers may have extra work to do to check compatibility. That and the fact that it serves no purpose except to make more money for Autodesk when companies may need to buy both versions in the future.

Just wanted to make sure that Chaos group plans on making future versions of vray compatible with 3dsmax Design. There is no guarantee that Autodesk won't split off the code base at some point, even though right now they are saying the two versions will be built off the same binary.

Here is a FAQ on the difference between versions:

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/file...al_faq__2_.pdf

Thanks.

P.S. Any plans for an upcoming XSI vray release?

[vlado]

V-Ray is supported on all versions and flavors of 3ds Max (Design or not), since 3ds Max 6 onward.

V-Ray for XSI is currently in beta development stage.

Best regards,
Vlado

[judderman]

I just received the very same e-mail. We're a visualisation studio and even though they say to choose 3ds max design if you primarily work in architecture e.t.c, I'm not convinced!

Regarding the code split, I suppose that could happen at some point - not keen on that happening!

Also am interested in hearing chaosgroup's position on this. I'm tempted to just stay with 3ds max, not the design variant. Is this foolish even though we work in mostly architectural graphics?

Oh, just read that the design variant has better connectivity with autocad - since a lot of our modelling is done in autocad and connected to max via the file link manager, perhaps the design version would be best after all?

[bluescreen2]

i choosed design. hopefully the future brings no bad surprieses.
btw. choosed it because of archviz and lightning tools.

[skogskalle]

I clicked the "discover the difference between max and max design"-link in the email and found this: "3ds Max includes all the features of 3ds Max Design, with the exception of Exposure™ lighting analysis"

I dont get it. If the only difference is the Exposure thingy, why not just include it in normal max.

[Morne]

the link between autocad and max and design is the same. I choose just plain max (I do about 80% archviz)

[rmejia]

I went with design. The difference between the two seems so small, I don't know why they had to split it up

[MikeHampton]

I HATE Autodesk for this!

I HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE that they are doing this!!!!

Did I say that I HATE that they are doing this?

I hated when they made a 3D Studio Viz.. I stuck with the full blown 3D studio max, and never once regretted that decision. Yes.. I primarily do design visualization (renderings and animation), but you never know what might be thrown my way, or what we might want to try. IE.. I never know when we might have to throw in some fountains (particle effects), or create a ocean invironment with sea foaming waves (for a design that would have been on the top level of a cruise ship), or even to animate a cartoon character (design of some kids characters for a clients "kids club" they were trying to develope).

I NEVER would have been able to do most of those things had I went the 3D studio viz route. Not to mention that I do stuff on my own that may not be design visualization at all (character design), just for fun and to increase my skills in other areas. In this crappy economy we are in, just because you work in design visualization today, doesn't mean you are going to next week! So it's best to have a broad skill set. I don't want to be limited by the software I am forced to choose from.

Right now, unless you have to have the SDK, it doesn't look like there is going to be hardly any difference between the two, but that's not the point. The point is what differences are there going to be in two or three versions down the road? What if they bring a maya like "paint effects" to one version of 3D max and not the other? I would be SCREAMING to get that! Or what if they bring in a heavy duty brushed based modeling feature to one version (probably the max version, something like zbrush) and not to the design version? What if they really update the hair and fur plugin for max but not for design? But that update REALLY is kick a** for to do landscaping and grass?

And is this "exposure" tool even going to work with vray? Or will it only work with the scanline/mental ray engine?

This is just a STUPID thing autodesk is doing. I would have thought that they would have learned their lesson with Viz, but apparently they are more like Sony, keep making the same mistakes over and over and over.

I'm pretty loyal to max, because I know it the best and because I have a giant library of models that I have built up over the years, but in this day and age of turbosquid (being able to buy most models you don't have time to do yourself relativly inexpensivly), this is exactly the kind of thing that makes me start to take a harder look at the other stuff that's out there (not owned by autodesk)!

BTW... Did I say that I HATE they are doing this!!

[vlado]

V-Ray supports the Lighting analysis render elements, so that part works fine. Other parts of the Exposure feature are designed exclusively for mental ray (they don't work with the scanline renderer either). There is no way for us to hook into that, even though V-Ray can provide all required data.

Best regards,
Vlado

[re:FORM]

Fire a complaint to your reseller... also to aDesk. It can't hurt.

[scottsch]

Thanks for the reply, Vlado, that's good to hear. If you need a beta tester for XSI (an offer no XSI user would refuse, actually), please PM me. I seem to have a knack for exposing rendering bugs in XSI.

Mike, I agree, kind of like the different flavors of Photoshop, they really serve no purpose to break the software up, because customers get nervous that they won't have the right version in the future. I suppose Autodesk will make 5% more money doing it, so they decided to go ahead. It will suck if one of them comes out with a cool feature that you want, but it's not in your flavor of 3dsmax. Owning a 3dsmax license and subscription should entitle you to everything that 3dsmax has to offer. Some people will have buy two versions now to get the whole 3dsmax experience. I thought I was paying my subscription fees to get new features, not to miss out on them.

The only non-money reason I can see for it is because they own Maya and XSI (), and they need to differentiate each product. Since 3dsmax is used a lot for design viz, I guess they want to sell it that way, since the other two are not great at viz work out of the box by comparison. Personally I use XSI for viz work and I prefer it over max.

[Shimakaze]

Good to see I'm not the only one who had a "wtf" reaction to that e-mail

[k-arts]

Maybe

My software reseller told me that you can switch to the other package if needed. But so far it is only possible from Max to Design, and not the otherway around, well until now. So we have chosen the 3dsmax version.

[MikeHampton]

Mike, I agree, kind of like the different flavors of Photoshop, they really serve no purpose to break the software up, because customers get nervous that they won't have the right version in the future.

I've been in the camp from the very beginning that I don't understand why photoshop and illustrator are seperate programs. Just take photoshop, make two layer types, a raster and a vector layer type (which has kind-of been added to photoshop), add all the vector editing tools from illustrator and walla!! You have one killer program. Greed is the only reason we have a photoshop AND an illustrator.


But what is everyone going to choose? Max or Design?

Right now.. I can not make an informed descision.. Only in another 2-3 years after a couple of updates will I know which one I would choose. Forcing me to choose right now, is just a coin toss. I'm either going to be ok with my decision in two years.. or going to be royally pissed off that the other version of max is getting all the stuff that I would like to have at my disposal.

[rmejia]

Autodesk is updating the UI in many programs, to give them all the ribbon as Microsoft products are now using. I wonder if they are going to change the 3ds max design ui to the ribbon, like in autocad, and now in revit ...

There's a thread in CGTalk that talks more about the 3ds Max split:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...=661858&page=4