VFB History and Hard Disk Behavior

[pixela]

I have few Hard Disks and plenty of space on them. (200 GB free space) For VFB history, when I assign a space (25GB) under E, strange crashes are happening with my computer. Sometimes VFB freezes, and sometimes windows stops recognising this hard disk and it doesn't show under "My Computer" all of a sudden when working inside 3dsMax. When I restart pc, the hard drive is there again.

If I assing a space under D, these things don't happen.

Most probably this is a problem within my pc but I just wanted to ask if there is a specification needed for VFB?
Or anyone have any idea why I am having this problem?

This has started after upgrade to Vray 2.10.01 (Service Pack). Maybe is just coincidence.

[JohnVK]

Definitely sounds like a hardware problem with the disk. Probably some corrupt/damaged clusters/sectors on the disk. You could start seeing those problems if those clusters/sectors are being used to write data to.

First thing to do is let Windows check the drive (right click the drive letter in the Windows Explorer > properties > go to the Tools/Extra tab). If it doesn't find problems then I think a permanent disk failure is eminent and you should definitely start backing up any data on the disk that is of any importance to you. After having backed up all of your important data you could try to reformat the disk and see if problems persist. But personally, I would trust the disk anymore. The fact that it goes AWOL from Windows means there are some serious problems with reading this device on the hardware level or at least with reading the partition table.

[pixela]

Thanks for your reply. I have already backed up all the data on this hard drive and today even unplugged it but same problem repeats with the other hard drive now.
I even get a strange error message from vray:

[JohnVK]

Hmmmmm! Never seen that before! Are you experiencing problems with other software as well or just the 3ds Max / Vray combo? Maybe there's some kind of corruption going on within your operating system. Maybe even caused by faulty harddisk(s). Or even a faulty power supply/memory. I think in this case I would start doing some hardware tests and if possible do a complete clean install on this particular machine.

Anyway, that error message is kind of out of my league maybe do what it says and send the requested info to Chaos support?

[pixela]

Yes already sent to Vlado.
Well, this happens with 3dsMax+Vray but these are the things I use 90% of my time. And this problem is very strange. For example, since ı have started working nothing happened for 5-6 hours and then windows stopped see one hard disk. And problem continues.
Now 3dsmax crashes all the time.

[JohnVK]

Haha, yeah, I thought you probably already sent it

That's really weird behaviour indeed...

If the disk goes 'down' can you hear it spin down or if you open the case are you able to hear it spinning or is it completely quiet? Is it a so called 'green' disk that might go in an unwanted permanent sleep state? Try disabling all energy saving settings in Windows. You could even try upgrading the disk's firmware if there is an update available.

Another thing you could check when the disk has disappeared is if it is still visible in the Disk Management tool of Windows (for Win7 : Start > right-click Computer > Manage > click the Disk Management option in the left pane). If it has disappeared there as well then the problem lies deep within Windows or even in the motherboard/disk controller and the chances of this being a hardware problem are like 99%. In that case, most likely either the disk(s) or the motherboard.

Have you tried replacing the disk's data cables (the ones connecting it to the motherboard)? Or connecting them to another connector on the motherboard?

It's a really tough problem to troubleshoot from a distance though. There are a LOT of possible causes. But like I said, in this case I would start with checking the hardware (motherboard, memory, harddisks, power supply) by running test tools, checking for overheating problems and/or temporarily replacing items with spares (if you have them). If that doesn't work out move to reinstalling the OS and apps.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help but I hope by pointing out some possible causes it might lead you to the main source of the issue

[pixela]

Thank you very much- It is already great help =)

1. Well I hear a strange sound like a spin before it goes down. But I am not sure which one is coming from. Sometimes disk or disks get invisble to windows and I still hear this sound. I unplugged E and Z now after backing up everything on them. I will see today if the problem occurs with C or S or D.

2. When they get invisible, they are also invisible in Disk Management tool.
One friend told me "if you are not having any blue screens, then it is not hardware problem" Is this correct?

I was thinking that it is the hard drive but now another one behaves similar. It is low possiblity if they are both broken.

3. How can I test if hard disk controller is working fine?

4. Yes I replaced data cables and checked them but I didnt' connect to other motherboard.

Thanks again.

[JohnVK]

Thank you very much- It is already great help =)

I'm glad to hear that!

1. Well I hear a strange sound like a spin before it goes down. But I am not sure which one is coming from. Sometimes disk or disks get invisble to windows and I still hear this sound. I unplugged E and Z now after backing up everything on them. I will see today if the problem occurs with C or S or D.

Are those all physical disks? Or partitions of a smaller number of disks?

The reason I'm asking is because of power supply. If you have 5 physical disks they could easily drain about 100 to 140 Watts by themselves from your power supply. How much watts is your PSU supplying? Or let me ask differently, what PSU do you have? Brand and type?

Maybe you can list the brand and type of the main components of your system? Mainboard, graphics card, harddisks, memory, PSU, DVD drive and other possible components (other pci cards, drives, etc.). Just so we know what we're dealing with

2. When they get invisible, they are also invisible in Disk Management tool.

That's not a good sign. This usually indicates a hardware problem.

One friend told me "if you are not having any blue screens, then it is not hardware problem" Is this correct?

Not sure where he heard that but unfortunately, no. Hardware issues can manifest themselves in many different ways. A bluescreen is merely an operating system crash which can also be caused by software. Incorrect or corrupt hardware drivers for instance. Another example: faulty memory can lead to application crashes, without ever bluescreening.

I was thinking that it is the hard drive but now another one behaves similar. It is low possiblity if they are both broken.

Yeah, that's definitely the weird thing about this all. Like you say, the chances of several disks malfunctioning all at once is very small. Not impossible of course but very small nonetheless. It seems a bit 'random'. That's why I am also suspecting a power supply problem, which could cause seemingly random issues like this.

3. How can I test if hard disk controller is working fine?

Without the proper hardware tools this is pretty much impossible unfortunately. The only thing you can do to test the controller is send massive amounts of data from one disk to another and check to see if file corruption has occurred. I usually do a simple test with very large RAR files (10GB a piece or so) and once copied open them and use the 'test' option from within WinRAR.
But then still this could also be faulty memory or processor and whatnot. Basically the entire system is involved in copy processes. So it's really hard to test this without using the proper hardware tools to measure the mainboard components.

4. Yes I replaced data cables and checked them but I didnt' connect to other motherboard.

Alright, you might still want to try and switch connectors on the motherboard. Maybe one of the connectors isn't working properly.

Thanks again.

No problem, my pleasure! I just hope you can solve the problem!

[pixela]

Today after removing both drives, things seem to be fine - Knock wood

Here is my PC configuration:
PSU: 750 Watt (forgot the brand but it was an expensive one)
Asus P5Q Motherboard
8 GB RAM (Kingston)
8800 GT Nvidia Videocard
4 physical hard drives. (Now 2 are unplugged)
CPU- Quadcore 9550 2.83GHz

I am using this system for quite along time without any problems. I have had 4 hard drives for few years without any problem with the same configuration and PSU.
The only change is : I replaced one of the 500GB hard disks, with a 2TB hard disk few weeks ago.
( This is my C now but I made a partition on this hard disk C and D)
Now I have only this 2TB hard disk and another one.
The other 2 are unplugged.

As I said, today my pc seems silent.
Another change I made was to optmise all the textures on the scene I am working on.
I don't know if this is related to the issue but when I was making test renders, the RAM usage on task manager was around 7.4GB but now it is around 5.5 after optimisation.

I would like to thank you again =)
You are really helping me very much.

[JohnVK]

Today after removing both drives, things seem to be fine - Knock wood

Alright!! That's great!

Here is my PC configuration:
PSU: 750 Watt (forgot the brand but it was an expensive one)
Asus P5Q Motherboard
8 GB RAM (Kingston)
8800 GT Nvidia Videocard
4 physical hard drives. (Now 2 are unplugged)
CPU- Quadcore 9550 2.83GHz

Considering even when the average PSU only has a 80% efficiency, that still leaves about 600 Watts. That should definitely be enough to supply all components with enough power in this case. We had similar machines running with a 500W PSU.

I am using this system for quite along time without any problems. I have had 4 hard drives for few years without any problem with the same configuration and PSU.

Yeah, I understand the thing is that components can start dying at any time.

The only change is : I replaced one of the 500GB hard disks, with a 2TB hard disk few weeks ago.
( This is my C now but I made a partition on this hard disk C and D)

This change shouldn't make a real difference. I don't think it is the source of the problem.

Now I have only this 2TB hard disk and another one.
The other 2 are unplugged.

As I said, today my pc seems silent.

So it seems the two disk or one of them seems to cause the issue. If the PSU is failing somehow, it could also still be the source of the problem.

Maybe, if things keep running smoothly, you could try to add one disk at a time and see what that leads to. If with (either) one disk added things keep running smoothly, we can rule out a disk issue

Another change I made was to optmise all the textures on the scene I am working on.
I don't know if this is related to the issue but when I was making test renders, the RAM usage on task manager was around 7.4GB but now it is around 5.5 after optimisation.

That is some impressive optimization!

This means a lot less memory is used and that it could also mean that in this case a possibly faulty memory module is NOT being used anymore. So it could also point to memory module issue.


So if we put the findings in a list I guess we can conclude the following so far:

1. disconnected two disks

Conclusion: problem solved, but other parameters were changed as well (optimized scene to use less RAM). So we can't be sure if the disks or the using less memory is solving this issue.

Test: connect one disk and see if the system stays stable. Disconnect and connect the other disk and see if things still stay stable. Finally, connect both and see what happens. If even with both reconnected the system stays stable now, the disks are not the cause.

2. Scene was optimized to use less RAM

Conclusion: since much less is used it could mean a faulty memory module is no longer used and therefor the problem has disappeared. But since also the disks were disconnected we need to troubleshoot one parameter at a time to make sure we're testing the right component(s).

Test: after doing the disks test, try to once again use the unoptimized scene (if you still have it somewhere). Then see if the issue starts again. If so, don't change anything in your system and go and use the optimized scene. If things stay stable then, there's a 99% change of faulty memory. In this case do a thorough test of the memory by using the memtest utility. You can find it here: http://www.memtest.org I would suggest downloading a "bootlable iso" and burn it to a CD which you can use to boot the computer from. Memtest will start automatically that way

I would like to thank you again =)
You are really helping me very much.

I'm really glad to hear that! I hope we can get to the root of your problems!

[pixela]

Thanks again for your feedback =)
Tomorrow I will plug one of the guilty hard disks. Today I will leave as it is. ( I have a deadline)
When the hard disks failed, they failed after a long period of time. I started working in the morning and almost after 6-7 hours windows decided not to recognise.
So tomorrow, whole day I will be plugging one of the hard disk.

I will try to test RAMs by removing all and trying to boot pc with one of the each time. I myself don't know how to remove RAMS so I will tell you the results as soon as I can make this test.

Today I feel calm because it is still running silently and I can work on my scene and I remember all the time the saying "Don't touch if it is working" : ))
I hope the problem is about the hard disks- that is the problem with the most easy solution for me at the moment.
I pray my motherboard or RAMs are not dying.

[JohnVK]

You are absolutely right in leaving things as is right now! especially with active deadlines!

I will be looking forward to hearing about the results of the tests! I am also hoping for an easy and cheap solution for you!

[pixela]

I made the RAM tests now.

Method:
I removed all 4 RAMS.
Then plugged only one. And booted pc. I didn't use any memory test software.
This made me understand that RAM is fine.

Then I plugged this fine RAM into each of the slots one by one and booted pc.
Every slot was fine and booted fine.

Then I plugged the other 3 RAMs, one at a time and booted pc.
All booted fine.

So the RAMS and the slots are healthy =)

[JohnVK]

I'm afraid that is not a good enough test to check the RAM

Please let me explain

The way you did the test only confirms the entire module isn't faulty (or actually the memory module's connector). However, it tells nothing about the individual chips on the module. Since any memory module is made up of several chips it will be necessary to perform a test that actually reads and writes to every chip and it's entire available storage. Even the smallest corruption, e.g., a single bit, can corrupt large blocks of data when written or read from the module.

So the only way to make sure the entire memory module, i.e., all chips on it, is fine is to do a stress test which writes and reads (many) small and large blocks of verifiable data to the module and checks the contents for errors afterwards. This is exactly what the memtest program does.

So I would still advise to do the Memtest. Better safe then sorry I always say You can simply leave all modules in place. Memtest will utilize them all.

[pixela]

Hmmmm
Thanks for letting me know.
Today in the afternoon, I will make this test.
In the meantime, I will keep on working- still only 2 hard drives plugged.
Another thing is that I had the box open all day yesterday, so this made me question if it is a heating problem. Today I will close the box when working until the evening.
I will let you know.