V-Ray 3.0 for 3ds Max Beta Open!

[Olli96]

This question still remains un-answered - Correct me if I am wrong.


Can we get clarification on what this means?
Does it mean that if we choose to upgrade to Vray 3.0, our 'old' vray 2 licenses and render nodes will no longer work after 6 months?

Seems like vlado dont want to answer this I would apply for the beta but like you said it would be nice to get clarification about this.

[Macker]

My take on it is this; Increase the render nodes you get with a licence to 2 or 3. I am sure this will placate most people.

Maxwell render offers you 5x node licences,
Thea Render offers you 2x nodes

All that is required is for you to equal/beat these guys pricing structures for people to stay on board & attract new people.

[vlado]

I'll put it this way (and it's painful to have to say it): we are not in a position to be able support free unlimited rendering in any form or shape anymore after the release of 3.0

Best regards,
Vlado

[instinct]

Hm. Keep in mind that the Licenses themselves got around 20% cheaper. So all in all that does not seem as steep to me as it seemed at first. Especially with the different upgrade bundles available it seems like most (mind you not all) cases will end up paying only slightly more thant for the 1.5->2.0 upgrade. I guess contacting sales with your specific details will help get actual cost.

Regards,
Thorsten

[Markus]

I'll put it this way (and it's painful to have to say it): we are not in a position to be able support free unlimited rendering in any form or shape anymore after the release of 3.0

Best regards,
Vlado

which i can totally undertstand!
however, as many stated out here, going from unlimited to 1 renderlic per full vray lic is a huge cut for smaller studios or freelancers.
Because of the upgrade options it is "ok" for old vray users. for new lics it´s some more money to invest now.

I think a lot of freelancers have one workstation and a few renderslaves (3-5). this, in my eyes, should be covered with the full vray lic.

I mean, its up to chaosgroup, its their software ..but $350 for a single render lic is a WORD !

[vlado]

I think a lot of freelancers have one workstation and a few renderslaves (3-5). this, in my eyes, should be covered with the full vray lic.

Yes, we did our homework and there is a bundle for that case specifically.

I mean, its up to chaosgroup, its their software ..but $350 for a single render lic is a WORD !

In practice, you will probably never have to pay that price.

Best regards,
Vlado

[3LP]

I'm trying to follow this thread since this morning, and although I understand the discontent from some, I really don't get the point of threatening to go to another rendering package.
Vray has so much that all the other one doesn't that I was even surprised in the first place that it wasn't even more expensive.
A render package has so much influence on your actual work ( because it's what you see) that I think you guys should re-evaluating the importance of the render package in the image you're creating.
When retrospectively I look at how much I'm relaying on VRay, I'm really considering that it's worth every penny.

I guess in the end, it all rely on how much money you're making out of vray itself.

Stan

[michaelwbell]

Vray has so much that all the other one doesn't that I was even surprised in the first place that it wasn't even more expensive.
A render package has so much influence on your actual work ( because it's what you see) that I think you guys should re-evaluating the importance of the render package in the image you're creating.

Stan of 3LP is very correct, I imagine everyone that has posted in this forum can probably attribute a lot of their income, artistic merit or precious hours time they have saved (for extra free time on a weekend!) to Vray.
It is a great piece of software. High Quality with ease of use. Actively developed with nightly builds. Stable with a very high level of support...and it is unusual to see most of that support come from Vlado personally.

Dear Vlado,
I noticed you have updated your forum signature - 'leave me alone to code'. I want to say that I have utmost respect for you and what you have achieved with Vray & the Chaos group portfolio of tools over the last 10-odd years.
You have created jobs and income for thousands of people, not just for the employees in Chaos, but the many Vray customers around the world.

I'll put it this way (and it's painful to have to say it): we are not in a position to be able support free unlimited rendering in any form or shape anymore after the release of 3.0

It is understandable that unlimited render nodes can no longer be offered going forward. As I stated in another thread in the Max 3.0 beta area, I actually never realised Vray 2.0 granted unlimited rendering...I thought it was only 5 nodes per licence!! (my render farm).
I do agree the licence change is too drastic though. I am very glad that users have spoken up in this thread regarding the licence changes. I do hope that we can continue this discussion with the Chaos Sales team and stop bothering you about it!


Regards,

Michael

[Christweil]

I'm trying to follow this thread since this morning, and although I understand the discontent from some, I really don't get the point of threatening to go to another rendering package.
Vray has so much that all the other one doesn't that I was even surprised in the first place that it wasn't even more expensive.
A render package has so much influence on your actual work ( because it's what you see) that I think you guys should re-evaluating the importance of the render package in the image you're creating.
When retrospectively I look at how much I'm relaying on VRay, I'm really considering that it's worth every penny.

I guess in the end, it all rely on how much money you're making out of vray itself.

Stan

Fully agree here !!
90% of the people here are so much focusing on the pricing that they forget the huge feature set and the benefits you get for this money and don't realize that they can actually lose much more by missing it.
It was exactly the reaction of Steve Ballmer when Apple released their iPhone back in 2007 -> "500USD for an iPhone... That's the most expensive phone in the world"... We all know the outcome...

What's even more ridiculous is to start comparing with other renderers, especially low quality ones...
V-Ray is so much more than a software, it is a fully packed renderer with all what you need, offers by far the best quality in the market, have a huge user community and fantastic level of support.
Support ? Think about it - did you see many lead developer and founder being so available and willing to help on a forum like Vlado is ? while on the other hand just writing the most successful renderer in the world...

[plastic_]

Yeah but the thing is, it's not exactly easy anymore to make money with rendering, especially in archviz, but also in other areas, I suspect.
The whole thing is becoming quite expensive, looking at total cost of computers, software subscriptions (esp. Autodesk), etc.
It adds up and the same time the clients expectations are also rising (while what they pay stays the same), so there is no way around adding horsepower for rendering, that's why it hurts to see that it's becoming expensive to scale processing power.

[Macker]

I have to say it is a shame that what looks like a fantastic release and the culmination of a lot of peoples hard work is being overshadowed by the node issue. I wouldn't threaten to move to another render package, because I know VRay is just so damn good and to find another capable render engine + huge user base + excellent customer support will be nigh on impossible!

I think the problem is that we've had the licencing so good for the past several years that it's a bit difficult to swallow such a change, but the reality is that Chaos Group needs to continue to function as a company and pay its staff/developers and there is realistically only one way to do that.

[vlado]

I do agree the licence change is too drastic though. I am very glad that users have spoken up in this thread regarding the licence changes.

You are right, you should speak up! After all, it's an issue that directly concerns everyone involved.

I do hope that we can continue this discussion with the Chaos Sales team and stop bothering you about it!

Hehe, I appreciate that! But after all it's part of my job. It is certainly unpleasant in situations like this, and I would rather spend my time on improving V-Ray itself, but it is what it is.

Best regards,
Vlado

[Christophe.Cot]

I do hope that we can continue this discussion with the Chaos Sales team and stop bothering you about it!

And here we are to answer all questions on this matter and give concrete examples which might serve everyone on this forum

[michaelwbell]

And here we are to answer all questions on this matter and give concrete examples which might serve everyone on this forum

Hello Chris!


Thankyou for posting here.
I have 2 questions to ask:

From the pricing page:
"V-Ray 2.x licenses will remain active for a 6-month grace period from the date of upgrade to V-Ray 3.0.
A special V-Ray 2.4 build will be available to provide compatibility with V-Ray 3.0 licenses."



1)Does this mean that if we upgrade to Vray 3.0 our Vray 2.4 licences will no longer work after 6 months?


2) If that is true.......Why should I upgrade? Wouldn't it be far more beneficial for me to NOT upgrade my Vray 2.4....But purchase a new Vray 3.0 licence instead?

Then I can have Vray 3.0 and still have my Vray 2.4 with unlimited nodes if needed.
And since the base cost of a new Vray licence is now going to be cheaper, this actually sounds like a much better deal to me.

Or better yet, wouldn't it be best to buy another new Vray 2.4 now and then receive a free upgrade to Vray 3.0 with 3x nodes? Buying a new licence would be cheaper than upgrading and give me more flexibility.


I really think the new node licencing is unfair and confusing in its current state.

Users that have built a large render farm around Vray will find it very difficult to accept this new policy.
It's deemed a neccessary move for Chaos and I think users will accept that, but the licencing terms are too strict - too much and too sudden.

Main issues:
-1 GUI licence should have 5x render nodes by default not one.
-The Vray 2.4 licenses will remain active for 6 months' clause. This is confusing and again has the potential to stop many users from upgrading at all. For a lot of current vray users, it sounds more like a downgrade - you are loosing so many things.


I posted more about this here:
http://forums.chaosgroup.com/showthr...894#post589894



Again thanks for posting here. There must be about 8 different threads about this node licensing scattered around the Chaos forums. It would be good to have an open discussion where all the users can express their concerns or suggestions and get their mis-understandings clarified!

[Christophe.Cot]

Hi Michael,

Thankyou for posting here.

I am sure everybody is interested in more or less the same questions so it is definitely best to post on the forum - then special cases or questions can be answered individually through our sales email.

1)Does this mean that if we upgrade to Vray 3.0 our Vray 2.4 licences will no longer work after 6 months?

Technically yes it is the idea.

2) If that is true.......Why should I upgrade? Wouldn't it be far more beneficial for me to NOT upgrade my Vray 2.4....But purchase a new Vray 3.0 licence instead?

For us this is not a problem at all - again we are not here to force to do anything, we choose what's best in your situation.

Then I can have Vray 3.0 and still have my Vray 2.4 with unlimited nodes if needed.
And since the base cost of a new Vray licence is now going to be cheaper, this actually sounds like a much better deal to me.

Here I feel you (wrongly) assume that the compatibility would be 100%... If you use V-Ray 3.0 to create a scene and try to use V-Ray 2.0 to render it (assuming it is really possible), you might face some serious compatibility issue.
The opposite is more likely to supported.

And you are right to mention that the base cost of a new V-Ray license is going to be cheaper

Or better yet, wouldn't it be best to buy another new Vray 2.4 now and then receive a free upgrade to Vray 3.0 with 3x nodes? Buying a new licence would be cheaper than upgrading and give me more flexibility.

Ultimately every user have different situations and concerns. If in your case the option to buy V-Ray now and receive the free upgrade to V-Ray 3.0 with 3x RN sounds a better deal, then we would be more than happy to help you in this process.