How can I plan for the 64 bit future?

[davidaleon]

Howdy folks,

This is my first post here at Chaotic (well… actually my second). I am an active member over at 3dBuzz.com and a lover of 3ds Max. I know a little about VRay, what it can do, it’s power and speed, and that it is more than worth the money.

I am seriously considering taking advantage of the SIGGRAPH special in the next 24 to 48 hours. If I do it indicates a serious commitment to use VRay in my future work. I am a man of very limited means and I have to make every investment count.

So, at length, my question is about hardware capacity planning. Consider the following benchmark:

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews...JsX3BhZ2U9OQ==

VRay clearly loves XEON and hates Opteron. Clearly, VRay is a carefully crafted instrument with XEON clearly in mind. If I buy VRay, do I buy XEON with confidence that VRay will continue to be XEON centric well into the 64 bit future? Or, alternatively, do I buy Opteron with confidence that Chaotic will throw the compiler switches to favor Opteron in Version 1.5 of VRay?

[paulison]

Davidaleon, good question, Im wondering the same things and am putting some long hours in at the moment to learn vray demo to see if Vray is the way I want to go. For me the 20% discount is a huge incentive to buy now as for me, this is still a lot of money.

My question is, does buying the advance version entitle you to free future upgrades in vray advance and for how long? Id hate to buy vray advance now and miss out on any great new features

[cpnichols]

Welll let me put it this way.... who do you trust will have a better plan for the 64bit future.

Pixar that has a rendering engine based on 20 years of history that is now deeply rooted to the point that it is costing them millions of dollars to just consider raytracing as an option....?

BTW... renderman is amazing... but old.

Or a young rendering engine that is built on young technology?

If you are familiar with Vray, you are familiar with the word adaptive...

I will end with that....

[davidaleon]

Yeah, I don't have much regard for Renderman either. If you believe you need a shader language you are wrong. We don't need no stinkin' shader language over here in 3ds Max land. The material editor will do just fine, thanks.

But let me sharpen my question so there is no misunderstanding. I want to buy VRay. The question is how to optimize VRay. As I mentioned before, I am a big advocate of buying the hardware that will maximize the software. Right now, in 32 bit mode, optimizing VRay means buying XEON. What will tommorow bring? Will VRay 1.5-32 bit still be optimized for XEON, or will it be optimized for Opteron? Will VRay 1.5-64bit be EMT64 centric or will it be AMD64 centric?

I would like to begin planning now for the future. Until I saw the review I posed above, I believed that meant buying Opteron. However, it is clear that VRay 1.093n hates Opteron and loves XEON. This casts doubt on the Opteron theory, to say the least.

I heard a rummor from EGZ from Oslo Norway that Vlado, the main VRay developer, is currently using an Opteron system himself. EGZ is sure any possible Opteron optimizations will be done. I also heard that Vlado will probably reply to this thread. I hope he does.

[thumpa]

It's worth remembering that 3ds max itself is optimized for Intel architecture.

[egz]

Are there any other VRay based bencharks out there that compare Xeon and Opteron? I'd like to see if other sources confirm the findings in the benchmark you posted. I'm planning on getting some new computers and renderslaves this fall so I'm very interested in this.

And as you said, Vlado uses an Opteron. I've pointed the thread out to him so hopefully he can shed some light on this.

[GuyIncognito]

Hexus.net has compared a Xeon System (Nocona) to a Opteron 250

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews...dXJsX3BhZ2U9MQ

[vlado]

Currently, when using a 32-bit OS, there is little point in switching to Opterons. My experience is that they are faster than regular Athlons by a few percent only. However, things change when you use a 64-bit OS. Now that we have a standalone version of VRay running under Linux, there is no problem compiling that for the 64-bit edition of Linux - and you get all the benefits of a 64-bit architecture, mainly the ability to handle much, much larger scenes than a 32-bit OS like Windows allows, until we have a 64-bit version of Windows.

However, all this applies to the standalone version of VRay. If you want to use 3dsmax on a 64-bit Windows, you have to wait 1) for the 64-bit Windows and 2) for a 64-bit version of 3dsmax.

Best regards,
Vlado

[davidaleon]

So I take that as: "We're sticking with XEON for the forseeable future."

[Fernando_Blanco]

Hi.

Vlado, once the standalone is out and a 64 bit version is only a matter of recompile it, as you've said.We could easily have a Opteron whith dual boot(linux/xp). Switch to 64 bit just for rendering.That would be great,since
a dual opteron is not so expensive once you think how fast would be a 64 bit version of Vray.

[paulison]

I think Id still prefer to use a XEON as well davidaleon for the 3ds machine, but how about setting up a 64bit Opteron renderslave using Vray standalone? The potential sounds great...

use the 64bit opteron renderslave with Vray Standalone in conjunction with a 32bit windows 3ds machine with Vray for 3ds as the render manager? this would be cool...is it possible? Maybee an incentive for people to use a Dual Xeon for 3DS and Dual Opteron as a kickarse renderslave...ooooooo

I conclude that my current upgrade choice is Dual Xeon, followed by a 64 bit vray standalone licence for linux + dual opteron in a year or so.

BTW: speed comparisons between 32bit vraystandalone in linux/windows and 64bit vray standalone in linux would be very interesting!

[davidaleon]

Let me see if I can sharpen the question one more time. I've heard from very reliable sources (Digital Dimension over in Burbank CA) that Discreet already has fully functional 64 bit builds of 3ds Max 7.0 running on Opteron and Windows XP64. Windows XP64 is essentially fully functional right now, but they just haven't had time to run a sufficient beta test against Intel hardware. This is the only reason they have postponed the release.

These sources say that Max is a hell of a lot faster under Windows XP64 and Opteron than it was under 32bit Windows and dual XEON. This is particularly true where Rendering is concerned.

Knowing that Windows XP64 is essentially cut to the AMD64 standard, and assuming the 3ds Max 7 is highly Opteron friendly, what will CHAOS do? Will you compile with the switches set for Opteron, or XEON?


I am only pressing because I was planning to jump on the Opteron bandwaggon in September. I don't have to do this. I can continue to build XEONs for myself. They are cheaper anyhow. I just want to make sure that I make the right choices for optimal VRay rendering performance.

P.S.

I love the speed of this forum. Your servers are quite a bit faster than the 3dBuzz forum servers.

[vlado]

Will you compile with the switches set for Opteron, or XEON?

Yep, when we get a 64-bit Windows compiler (I've heard that Microsoft is working on one and hopefully that will be available when the 64-bit Windows is released).

Best regards,
Vlado

[davidaleon]

I really apreciate all the information you've given me, and I don't want to seem at all ungrateful, but your answer does leave me in a bit of quandry.

Microsoft claims they will ship Windows XP64 in roughly 90 days. That is roughly 90 days of procurement and prep time for me. That really isn't very long. If the time-table is that short, I should probably buy Opteron and not XEON, right?

According to one report the major reason why they are delaying is because most hardware vendors haven't gotten off their duffs and written 64 bit device drivers for Windows XP64.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...819110253.html

[vlado]

Well, 3dsmax also needs to be recompiled and released officially. When this happens, we have no problems to recompile V-Ray for it. Perhaps it will be a good idea to ask discreet if/when they plan to release 64-bit 3dsmax.

Best regards,
Vlado