Animation noise / flicker (here too)

[igorknez]

Hi,

So hey, g'day - and I need some help

I am trying to render animation in v-ray with moving objects.
So far I had some good results with inceremental add to imap (without animation of objects) and such scenes - but this one here gives me trouble.

In short, animation flickers - and I can't seem to fix it even when cranking settings to very high. (at least what I think is quite very high) (both imap and QMC)

I posted some small sized and short AVI tests up to my site for you to see.
This is scene mockup similar to how final animation should be.
It will be just a car moving in a cortyard - but here I placed some familiar models to simplify the scene, get faster renders and fix the problem.

Similar flickering is appearing when using final models.
TO make it simpler I removed all the lights except environment (mult. 2)
so that's why scene is kinda dark. And it looks problem is not in light subdivs - since I tried that in one spotlight that was there (now removed)

here's first one with temp car... see how walls flicker.
settings are medium-animation IMAP Hshp subdiv 50, interp. 40
QMC amount 0.85, min samples 20, noise .005
http://www.flaregroup.com/temp/acc.avi

OK so then I replaced car with teapot thinking maybe something is wrong with textures. But no luck.
http://www.flaregroup.com/temp/ace.avi
also, I raised quality of QMC by lowering amount to .1, samples to 80 and noise to .001

and last one:

http://www.flaregroup.com/temp/ace_c.avi
IMAP here is at vey_high_animation preset
QMC is at amount .05, min samples 120, noise .001 and I also increased global subdiv multiplier to 2.
Still flickers!!!

No need to mention that render times are up 8-fold and still no good for output.

I am rendering one now with even higher setting - but I don't want to bother you all anymore. (anyway after first 10 frames I can see some amount of flicker again)

Well, any ideas here! Any of you guys got flicker free animation with moving objects that can share settings or give render times?

All IMAP and lightmap settings are single frame, and this is authorized vray 1.45 running on authorized max6 (just thought I mention)

thanks a lot!

Igor

[DaForce]

Well to me it looks like an auth issue. As you are getting full frame flickering.

Whats the full vray version that you are using? 1.45.??

You may need to uninstall vray delete all left over plugins and then reinstall and re-auth.

[natty]

yeah it isnt an AA problem.. or QMC .. as Daforce said ...contact chaos and re-authorize.

[igorknez]

I could try that..... but before I do... can you explain what was auth flicker problem in the first place? I didn't really use v-ray before so I don't know. So I never saw that problem. I know it flickered but never saw it.

vray I use here is 1.45
I am not sure if my problem is that one.

If you look closer (I know video is small) you'll see that there's not much flicker on teapot / car... it is on the walls mostly.

This flicker does NOT appear if I use, say "incremental add to current map" setting, and I didn't really see it in any of scenes I rendered so far.... but most of my scenes were scenes with non-moving objects and they rendered perfectly. So no flicker there.

So did that authorisation problem appear ALWAYS when you render scene or only in "single frame" mode like here?

Thanks,
Igor

[J_Bug]

It's definitely not an auth issue. I think you just don't have enough light samples down in that dungeon of a room. I'm assuming that you're only using skylight so you can figure out the problem you've noticed in the fully lit rendering? Is the skylight only coming from a small opening in the top? It would be interesting to see what your original light setup you've mentioned was. Maybe you should consider using a VRayLight above the opening or some point lights strategically placed down in that dungeon to get some more samples for VRay to use. Also try with the "High-animation" preset, lower "Interp. samples" and higher "HSph. subdivs."

Great artwork on your site BTW, Really love it

--Jon

[natty]

Keep us posted to what the answer is

[igorknez]

J_Bug....

I am glad you like my stuff up on the site.... my ongoing project in vray is to do interior renderings of that spiral tower. I'll post some stuff here when I do it.

thanks for answer - it is good to know that it is not auth issue - but, dang, that would be quick fix, wouldn't it?....

I agree light samples are issue.... but obviously I can crank them up higher and higher - but at some point rendering times really get loooong.
ALready settings are way high (IMO)

And, yeah, I did remove all lights in the scene but for environment light. (mult 2.0)
I did have one direct light shooting bright light in there. I thought that was the problem so I increased subdivs on that light - it didn't help much.
So then I removed it to pinpoint the problem. Later I remover car too thinking something there can cause all this.
here's how it looks with spotlight present.

http://www.flaregroup.com/temp/car.avi

Weird thing is it looks to me like car itself is NOT flickering much or at all... but the walls are bad. There is some AA shimmer in headlights - but I fixed that now.
I would think that if we have few light samples down there car should flicker too, right?

Adding some faint lights down there is good idea.

Anybody knows is there difference in number of samples per light between just faint light and bright light? I am kinda hoping if I can add faint light that will not add much brightness to the scene (but will add samples) - that can be fix.
Will definitely try adding vraylight plane up near the opening. that will help, I'm sure but still... it would be good to figure these things out in general terms.

TNX

[J_Bug]

Well, AFAIK, yes...

brighter lights= more samples.

Have you looked at the Imap in the viewer? This may answer questions about the flickering not happening on the car but I do agree that it is strange. Isn't that a public model of the building? If you can... post a simple scene of the last animation with it's current settings and maybe myself and others can try to help more. At the least post a screen grab of your settings so it's quicker to analyze the parameters.

--Jon

[igorknez]

I don't have IMAP viewer for vray 1.45... I did e-mail Vlado couple of weeks ago but didn't get reply as of yet. I don't think viewer for 1.09 will work here.

Is there any place I can download that one? Or can anybody e-mail it to me?

Yeah this is public model "sponza" - it is quite similar to what I'll have in final, though, so I use it as stand-in.
I did convert all materials to vray and checked "apply" and all that.

Well... I'll post test scene shortly so if anybody has time to try it out - that would be great. I'll leave teapot instead of the car in the scene - makes no difference anyway.

Igor

[J_Bug]

Sorry, I can't help with the new viewer. I'm still using 1.09, didn't realize you were using 1.45 so I'm not sure if I'll be able to help but I can try to test it in 1.09 and maybe the settings should translate ok.
--Jon

[DaForce]

igorknez:
Can you do me a favour and make a plane and put a teapot on it and animate a camera to spin around it. And render it with GI only on low IRmap presets.

See if you get flickering then.

Thanks

[ezrhythm]

i guess these are edges from fast made IRMAP that flickers..

[cpnichols]

Hey Igor... This is Chris Nichols...

You may want to get more light bounces in there. Since you are using 1.45 you may way to try to use the new lightmap method for your secondary bounces. this will essentialy do infinit light bounces, at very little computational expense.

Use irradiance for the primary at medium animation, and lightmap for the secondary. Don't cache any files or anything, just render as is. In the incemental add to map stuff is only for static scenes with only the camera moving.

[olitech]

...actually, we've noticed that even with "incremental add to current map", moving object shadows still flicker when they (the moving objects) are in shadow...not in direct light....so we've actually had to hit the object(s) with it's own light (excluding everything else) to work around this....

[olitech]

...actually, we've noticed that even with "incremental add to current map", moving object shadows still flicker when they (the moving objects) are in shadow...not in direct light....so we've actually had to hit the object(s) with it's own light (excluding everything else) to work around this....