32 vs 16 bit

[Raven]

A client has asked if we can switch to 16 bit to save on render costs?!?!
My initial response was rendering is rendering, what file format you save as doesn't affect cost or time.

We are already delivering 16 bit exr, so I can only assume he means he wants the actual rendering to be 16 bit.
Would this even be possible? And would it affect render times.

PS I think it is an odd request and would like to educate, but would need the technicals, if there are any.

Thanks

[Ihno]

MR was able to render in 16 bit. I think it was a little faster since that prevents it from producing fireflies. Still, much, much slower than vray though.
But that might be the reason he asked

[andy51]

When rendering out an open EXR, you have the choice of 32 bit or 16 bottom at the bottom of the dialog box, if you don't select 32 bit output, then you get 16bit.. Sounds to me like your client doesn't like your costs and is trying to find a way to reduce them. This however is not going to change anything.. 32 is by far more accurate when it comes to editing images or compositing in Nuke etc. but for every day rendering, the difference would hardly be noticeable by the majority of clients. In fact the majority would be happy with 8 bit jpegs. Anyway I seriously doubt 16bit would render any faster and they should not be paying for the time it takes to render anyway, only the modelling and final images/videos produced. It cost no more to render at 32 than it does 16, as far as I know.

As for them wanting a 16 bit render, of course it is possible, they can have 8 bit,16 bit or 32 bit, only difference is the control you or they have when editing such things. and you easily edit them in 32 bit and save them to 16 or even 8 bit. It could be that they want to edit them and their software cannot handle 32 bit or they use Photoshop, which has limited functionality when editing them. but I doubt that is the case. They just want to save money, same as every client I have ever dealt with.

[Macker]

What they are asking won't speed up your renders. VRay works floating point internally, though the closest to what they are asking for would be to "clamp output" at 1.0; though the effect this will have on rendertimes is negligible - you might notice smoother transitions between blown out highlights, but that's about it; you'll lose all the additional dynamic range you would have had too.

As said above; I suspect the client wants something cheaper, and this isn't a way to achieve it.

[JezUK]

and they should not be paying for the time it takes to render anyway, only the modelling and final images/videos produced

Seriously ?

A client that wants a render at 10K taking 12 hours to render should be charged the same as a client that wants a 20 minute render at 720 ?

[Raven]

Thanks guys, that is exactly what I thought, and told the client as much.
As for clients paying for renders, I always budget a certain amount for it in the initial quote, but when they make changes after approving animations 3 or 4 times it has to be charged for separately.
And when doing animations that are 400-600 frames at 25 mins a frame you cant absorb those cost for their indecision.

[AJ Jefferies]

A client that wants a render at 10K taking 12 hours to render should be charged the same as a client that wants a 20 minute render at 720 ?

This has been discussed here a few times but my personal issue with charging for render time is that the more investment you make in your hardware, the less time it takes to render. So to charge clients based upon the time it takes to render something can be counter-intuitive. Also, someone could be producing great renders but with hugely inefficient settings, so they charge the client for a 16 hour render that another artist could optimise and have rendering in 4.

Don't get me wrong, if you need to maintain or hire a renderfarm, then you should include those costs when you quote (or if the client makes changes) but I've always found the idea of billing clients for the time your machines are chugging away uncomfortable.

[JezUK]

This has been discussed here a few times but my personal issue with charging for render time is that the more investment you make in your hardware, the less time it takes to render. So to charge clients based upon the time it takes to render something can be counter-intuitive. Also, someone could be producing great renders but with hugely inefficient settings, so they charge the client for a 16 hour render that another artist could optimise and have rendering in 4.

Don't get me wrong, if you need to maintain or hire a renderfarm, then you should include those costs when you quote (or if the client makes changes) but I've always found the idea of billing clients for the time your machines are chugging away uncomfortable.

Whether it's your machine(s) or Rebusfarm's, I fail to see how that isn't a cost that is passed onto a client.

Yes, in my case, if the client is wanting stills for interiors, I will first ask if it's for print purposes or for screen display. In my case, if it's for screen, I can render on my single machine or (as is recently the case) my 4 x 1080ti's.

But if it's for print, and large at that, (or VR with 10,000+ px longest edge) and the deadline is tight too, so they are needed quick - as a freelancer, I would charge for that and not feel uncomfortable doing so.

Looking at it the opposite way, if I first were to give a price to the client for large prints and they then turnaround and ask say actually it's for screen display only, they would be surprised if I didn't then quote them a lower price.

Horses for courses - each to their own I guess

Investing in new gear in order to turn renders around more and more quickly, whilst keeping prices the same (or even reducing them as competitors are these day), I can only see that as a race to the bottom....

My 0.00000002 cents

[Ihno]

If we have a project with massive rendering need. We just take the price it would cost at rebus x1.5.
"With massive rendering need" means animation or several VR (12000*4000) renders.
Things that would take a week or so. If something happens I can still throw it at rebus.

We don't have a specific border... I'd say If it takes more than a night or two to render the whole thing (multiple views in case of a still project) We'll charge.
Sometimes the decision is to not charge that, because we really wan't the client or something.